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VarmLR

Tikka TAC A1: GMK Response to Muzzle Thread issues

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Just an update for anyone who has experienced issues using exact for cal mods on TAC A1s:

There's an issue which affects some CTR and some TAC A1 rifles whereby the threads have no been undercut as according to Tikka "they were designed for use with a clamped muzzle brake and do not require an undercut".  Interestingly, the muzzle brake supplied with the 6.5 rifle is actually a 30 cal muzzle break, so I see Tikka's response as a cop-out for not doing the job properly in the first place and I have lost trust in the brand over this issue.  Consequently, as in my case, some mods may not square up properly at the end of the thread and this pulls the mod off centre at the muzzle end, so causing the bullet to strike the inside of the mod.  It has nothing to do with the use of correct for cal mods and long bullets, and everything to do with mods being pulled off axis when tightened.

This issue does not affect everyone concerned because many use mods with a bore large for calibre, ie 30 cal mods on a 6.5, plus some manufacturers (like Stallon) sell mods which cover a range of cals, so for a 6.5, their cal is labelled as "up to 30 cal".

GMKs response to this was fair and swift.  They aimed to rectify things for the UK market quickly, and hats off to them, they have delivered on their promise.  They met with representatives of Tikka and on their return, promised to sort the issue for all UK customers who have CTR/TAC A1 rifles which may be affected.  The solution was to have precision made SS washers which act as a spacer to cover the area of the barrel which ought to have been properly undercut.  You will need 4 of the supplied washers to cover this area and will need to speak with the RFD who sold you your CTR/TAC A1 and they will be supplied FOC by GMK.

This to my mind is not an ideal situation because washers can carbon up rapidly and are easily lost or damaged due to being very thin.  For my part, I have chosen to have my thread properly undercut so that the mod squares up properly against the main barrel.  This, however, will invalidate any warranty.   It's a ridiculous situation and should never have occured but there are now readily adoptable solutions.  The third solution is to have your mod thread counterbored providing that you can afford to lose approx 2mm of thread.

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Any guess of how many guns are effected by this?

i had problems getting a mod to fit.even after phoning gmk and quoting the serial number only to be told the wrong thread size. Not good really 

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I always thought the thread on my ctr looked odd at the shoulder. Myself and my mates have 4 ctr rifles in 308 cal. We are all using 30 cal mods. A dpt, a Roedale, a mae compact bushless and a ase sl7i. 

No issues with any of them  at all. 

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Varm, your solution is the correct one, having the thread undercut allowing the shoulder to sit square. That's the solution that should have been offered by GMK/Beretta instead of a stack of shim washers, Naff.

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I'll post a picture this afternoon when I get a chance.  I footed the bill and had HPS-TR do the work.

It's a shame as otherwise the T3 is a very fine rifle which has earned a good reputation for precision shooting as demonstrated last year at Bisley with the 600m result. (I think that one was a in 260 Rem).

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2 hours ago, VarmLR said:

The third solution is to have your mod thread counterbored providing that you can afford to lose approx 2mm of thread.

Why didn't you go this route? 

It would have been cheaper and not affected the warranty on your rifle.

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Simply because if I change my mod Al, I would have to do this again, so I thought that longer term it was better just to have the thread undercut. The thread bushing for my mod probably had enough depth but I thought it better to retain that bushing depth fully threaded.  It was no bother removing the action and trigger assembly on the rifle and it only took a few minutes to do the actual work after the barrel was trued up in the lathe.  Frankly, it irked me that it hadn't been done properly by Tikka in the first place.

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My Hausken mods fit right onto CTR's. I know the design is unusual but at the end of the day it might be stronger. The worst thing is overdoing an undercut. If you look at a M14x1  and 308 only has ~ 2.5mm wall section. Not huge. 5/8x24 is a bit better.

edi 

 

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I've chatted over pm with VarmLR about this issue. We bought the same TAC 1 rifles and mods from the same RFD. 'Touch wood' i've (to date!) not had this issue, but i do hate the way the mod sits on the rifle, as to anyone else it would look loose. My rifle has been fine with TMK's and 139 Scenars. But I'm just in the middle of loading up some 143 ELD-X rounds, but i'm worried i will end up with the mod strike when i fire the rounds. Not good when you think the rifle and moderator cost around 2 grand minus glass....

VarmLR, do i wait to be contacted for the so called 'shims', or do i chase our RFD??

Cheers

Chaz.

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A lot depends on the design of the mods.  Neither my sl5s nor my Aimzonic Triton 42 fitted properly because the bushes by design are threaded all the way through so tightened up on the thread end and not squarely against the barrel shoulder which is needed to make the bore of the mod concentric with the barrel.  Some get away without doing anything by using 30 cal mods on smaller cals too, but as the damage was already done to my mod I wanted the cause rectified.   I'm not happy with any gap that exists between a bushing and barrel shoulder as that raises one or two other issues too .

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1 minute ago, chaz said:

I've chatted over pm with VarmLR about this issue. We bought the same TAC 1 rifles and mods from the same RFD. 'Touch wood' i've (to date!) not had this issue, but i do hate the way the mod sits on the rifle, as to anyone else it would look loose. My rifle has been fine with TMK's and 139 Scenars. But I'm just in the middle of loading up some 143 ELD-X rounds, but i'm worried i will end up with the mod strike when i fire the rounds. Not good when you think the rifle and moderator cost around 2 grand minus glass....

VarmLR, do i wait to be contacted for the so called 'shims', or do i chase our RFD??

Cheers

Chaz.

You contact the RFD Chaz and they'll pop 'em in the post to you.  I understand that they'll automatically be sent out with all new T3x CTRs and TACs concerned.

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1 hour ago, VarmLR said:

You contact the RFD Chaz and they'll pop 'em in the post to you.  I understand that they'll automatically be sent out with all new T3x CTRs and TACs concerned.

Cheers VarmLR i'll give them a bell.

Chaz.

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Adding spacers does not solve the problem all your doing there is extending the shoulder of the barrel the threads will still run all the way to the washer so effectively all you do is lose 3mm of thread. The easiest solution is have a relief cut in the moderator

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The proper solution is for the muzzle thread to have the correct undercut at the shoulder in the first place and should in my view be the only way for the manufacturer and the importer to solve the issue with affected weapons.

 

A M14x1mm thread has a root depth of approximately .051” It takes a moment to create the correct undercut once the barrel is set up in the lathe.

Without this any barrel is restricted to what muzzle brake or moderator that may be safely fitted

Any suggestion of altering the mod or brake would also affect that components “warranty” 

 

Surely the thorn should have been grasped at source rather than rely on washers or modification of other products “to make it do”

 

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29 minutes ago, Ronin said:

Surely the thorn should have been grasped at source rather than rely on washers or modification of other products “to make it do”

Exactly.  Are they going to fix this for future manufacture ?  

As for invalidating the warranty, tell them you are sending it back to them under their warranty as it is clearly not fit for purpose. A few shims is not addressing the fundamental problem,  just minimising their rectification costs. Failing that, off to the small claims court.

Is this just an issue with CTR and TAC ?  Shame, fancied a CTR because of the barrel profile. That's Tikka off the list, its getting a bit short !

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I had the same issue on my Weihrauch HW 66 threading - no undercut.  Alison Green was a STAR and sent me a new diffuser for my mod which allowed it to mate perfectly.  No washers or worries about loose bits etc.

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1 hour ago, Ronin said:

 

 

Surely the thorn should have been grasped at source rather than rely on washers or modification of other products “to make it do”

 

No I agree but let's be real they say no we say yes big man wins every time.  I picked up a tac last week it has the undercut thread so they must have adressed it from the factory but in my opinion gmk should recall and replace those that are not.

The thing is it is a harder job to turn threads to the shoulder than under cut them with a parting tool at 1/8".

Look at the USA they get them for 1500-1800 usd we pay 1700£ in the USA they got 2 mags supplied and a free one after registering for the warranty we get one here if you want to buy a second it's £120. 

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1 hour ago, LR.wolf said:

 

The thing is it is a harder job to turn threads to the shoulder than under cut them with a parting tool at 1/8".

 

Not on a CNC it isn’t, the thread cut will be interrupted at the same point each time, and an undercut would require a tool change

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I know of two T 1X`s with problems , one had to go back to GMK and be re crowned as accuracy was naf and the other has feed problems , bullet heads are not aligning correctly and getting damaged before going into the chamber , not what you expect from Tikka. 

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21 hours ago, bradders said:

Not on a CNC it isn’t, the thread cut will be interrupted at the same point each time, and an undercut would require a tool change

Guess your right I am thinking good old fashion way by hand when machine men were machine men and not computer experts lol 

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I had mine undercut and put pressure on GMK to address this is it doesn't half scare the crap out of you when pulling the trigger, and seeing impact miles to one side and high.....at 25 yds!!!!  You then check your mod to see that it's b&ggered and the rounds have been clipping it on the way out.

I followed this up, not satisfied that I had invalidated my warranty by doing what Tikka should have done in the first place, and to be fair to GMK, they did, shortly afterwards meet with Tikka to discuss the issue.  The interim solution was to provide crush washers (which does work as the square face of the mod then has a square face of the washers to mate with so stays concentric to the barrel as the washers are stacked so that the thread effectively undercuts them).  

It does look as if Tikka are now properly undercutting the threads as it isn't really helpful to issue statements like  "....designed for use with a muzzle break so we see no problem.".  As these were intended to sell mostly in the State's, marketed for "Law enforcement and Military" but ostensibly more civilians will buy them up (when did you last see the military sporting Tikkas?).

Shout loud enough for long enough, and play the safety card and someone somewhere should listen, as may have been the case here.  Good job it's now sorted...and about time!

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I looked at a 5/8 -24 cut TAC two nights ago and didn't remember seeing anything amiss under the thread cap. ~Andrew.

 

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I think that the issues are now resolved with newer rifles Andrew.  Early production runs had a few mm of the threaded area next to the shoulder left uncut which was the problem.  Newer ones now appear to be undercut by all reports.  Why they ever released the Tac without the thread being properly cut in the first pace beats me, as it was always going to be a potential cause of problems for mod users.

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