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onthetin

Buying Seconhand

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Can anyone tell me whether a gun bought second hand from a dealer selling on behalf of a private individual is covered under the Consumer Rights Act.

 

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AFAIK who ever you paid for the goods is responsible however if the dealer made it clear they were acting as an agent and stated so on the receipt the I doubt you have recourse , I`d say its a question for your local trading standards to be sure of your rights.

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onthetin, would it not be classed as remote selling as you did not buy direct from the seller? if thats the case you have fourteen days from the day you recieved it to return it if you are unhappy and in law recieve a full refund,possibly minus rfd cost. buyer beware.

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I dont think you can compare an RFD who supplied handguns to gangsters with one who may be trying to avoid giving a warranty on a legitimate used gun.

The OP said the rifle owner was a private individual so no come backs even if they were distance dealing direct ,if the OP set up the sale and used the RFD just for the transfer then no come back or  if the RFD who did the transfer made it clear he was just an agent then no comebacks either.

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Interesting responses. If the RFD sells and the purchaser is not aware of the original owners details and therefore only deals with the RFD who advertised the item for sale, my logic tells me that the RFD takes responsibility. If certain representations were made which transpire to be inaccurate the only recourse is I assume against the RFD even though they may have relied soley on the original sellers representatons to them.

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Have just taken legal advice:

If a second hand item is sold to you, the person selling or in the case of a gun dealer selling on behalf of a customer on commission, takes responsibility for any statements made regarding the item that you rely upon to make your decision. Additionally the item should be fit purpose.  So whether the dealer tells you its being sold on behalf of a customer, your contract is with the dealer and you have recourse against them. Therefore, always ensure that you pay for any item (if you can) with a credit card (minimum £100, but not necessarily the full value, as the minimum payment will cover the whole transaction ) so you can have recourse against the credit card company as well. This falls under your consumer rights, section 75. In addition, if an item is misrepresented there is the misrepresentation act to fall back on. 

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+1

The seller (RFD) is responsible.  It doesn't matter who he claims he's selling the gun for, acting as agent or no.  Your contract is with the RFD, not his mate/client (delete as appropriate).  If there's a fault with it, he's liable for your refund or repair. 

I had this a few years back and it almost ended in court action against the unscrupulous (in that case) dealer who sold a rifle which had belonged to someone he knew.  Only when I stated there was a major problem with it did he claim no responsibility.  I ended up getting BASC and the Guntrader's Association involved, and then Trading Standards.  The legal advice received was don't be fooled, it's the person who takes your cash who your contract is with.  Firearms must be sold face to face with a certificate filled out etc, or remote by the seller filling the details in.  If the RFD filled your details out and took your money and there's a later issue, he's the person you deal with irrespective of who he claims he's acting as agent for.

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Totally with you. Posted this for the benefit of anyone buying second hand and induced into a purchase based on incorrect data and for the benefit of those dealers (not the honest ones) who will have you believe otherwise

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26 minutes ago, VarmLR said:

+1

The seller (RFD) is responsible.  It doesn't matter who he claims he's selling the gun for, acting as agent or no.  Your contract is with the RFD, not his mate/client (delete as appropriate).  If there's a fault with it, he's liable for your refund or repair. 

I had this a few years back and it almost ended in court action against the unscrupulous (in that case) dealer who sold a rifle which had belonged to someone he knew.  Only when I stated there was a major problem with it did he claim no responsibility.  I ended up getting BASC and the Guntrader's Association involved, and then Trading Standards.  The legal advice received was don't be fooled, it's the person who takes your cash who your contract is with.  Firearms must be sold face to face with a certificate filled out etc, or remote by the seller filling the details in.  If the RFD filled your details out and took your money and there's a later issue, he's the person you deal with irrespective of who he claims he's acting as agent for.

I suppose the only way the RFD could avoid responsibilities is to get a cheque off the buyer made out to the seller and another one made to himself for the commission or get a cheque off the vendor for his commission,  not sure how auction houses get around it.

What warranty has to be given on used guns by law ?

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Statutory rights mean new or used, goods must be "as advertised" and of satisfactory quality (fit for purpose).  Whoever enters their details into your FAC is disposing of the rifle from their custody (ownership) to yours, traceable (the whole point) "at point of sale", the exception being RFD transfers where the seller would be paid up front and you only receive FTF from the RFD who in this case has not sold you the firearm, nor is he meant to complete your FAC (which ought to have been done by the seller).  That's the law.  How it is interpreted varies wildly.  If the seller failed to disclose something material which would affect performance making it unfit for purpose or otherwise of unsatisfactory quality you get your money back.  You don't even have to ask the question in the first place to determine fitness for purpose.  The only way out is for the seller to have made full disclosure of any defects or wear up front, then you are stuck with it as it is offer to treat and acceptance, but that doesn't entitle a commercial seller to sell new or used something which could be deemed dangerous.  Knackered, yes, dangerous, no.

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