JohnGalway Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Hi folks, Big problem in a little Sako. Usually the bolt has a lovely smooth action, no bother in the least to work it with forefinger or thumb back and forth. Now, I did #### all shooting over the summer so it was laid up in the gunsafe all that time. Cleaned before being put away. Had good mates visit, one specially to shoot the Quad to see what it was like. I took it out of the safe and the bolt was a torture to move back and forth. Tonight I took the bolt apart, cleaned it, reassembled and the problem is still there. So I moved on and had a look at the bolt release button (for want of a better term). I removed the pin holding the button and the little spring that works it, cleaned both, replaced. Decided to removed a little of the length of that pin as I was developing suspicions about the stock at this stage. So I do that and no, the problem still exists without obvious rub marks. Right, so, on we go again to the relationship between the action, the stock and the action screws. Well bugger me but I find if I don't tighten the action screws all the way - meaning hand tight not superman in bad humour tight - the bolt action is back to it's lovely smooth self. Result! Or, is it. So, where to now I ask? It seems over the summer something has happened in this relationship. That, or I'm missing something else. Why would the smooth bolt action go to crap, what caused this? What can I do about it, is it a gunsmith job? Do any brightspark out there have other suggestions? Yours, confused, JG I'll upload photos later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Hi folks, Big problem in a little Sako. Usually the bolt has a lovely smooth action, no bother in the least to work it with forefinger or thumb back and forth. Now, I did #### all shooting over the summer so it was laid up in the gunsafe all that time. Cleaned before being put away. Had good mates visit, one specially to shoot the Quad to see what it was like. I took it out of the safe and the bolt was a torture to move back and forth. Tonight I took the bolt apart, cleaned it, reassembled and the problem is still there. So I moved on and had a look at the bolt release button (for want of a better term). I removed the pin holding the button and the little spring that works it, cleaned both, replaced. Decided to removed a little of the length of that pin as I was developing suspicions about the stock at this stage. So I do that and no, the problem still exists without obvious rub marks. Right, so, on we go again to the relationship between the action, the stock and the action screws. Well bugger me but I find if I don't tighten the action screws all the way - meaning hand tight not superman in bad humour tight - the bolt action is back to it's lovely smooth self. Result! Or, is it. So, where to now I ask? It seems over the summer something has happened in this relationship. That, or I'm missing something else. Why would the smooth bolt action go to crap, what caused this? What can I do about it, is it a gunsmith job? Do any brightspark out there have other suggestions? Yours, confused, JG I'll upload photos later. mine to has gone like this but i have used it over summer quite a bit, but i do know i havent cleaned it since i bought it and i was one of the first in the uk to have one . could this be spmething to do with it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I don't usually - unless very very bored - clean the barrel of the .22 but the rest of it gets a good looking after. I don't understand why this has happened to be honest, synthetic stock so it's not like a wooden stock warped or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streeker59 Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 If the bolt moves smoothly prior to screw tightening, the stock must be mishapen in someway and is distorting the action when the screws are tightened. Could there be an internal crack within the stock maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 IF I'm not working today I'll take a closer look at the stock. Can't find the lead for my camera for the pictures, usually tripping over the thing when I don't need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just a thought as I don't know the set up personally, is it 2 screws? Have they different lengths and they have been put back in the wrong order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Just a thought as I don't know the set up personally, is it 2 screws? Have they different lengths and they have been put back in the wrong order? Not long in from work, I'll look at that in a while, don't think that's the problem though but I will check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejg223 Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Never had one of the little sako's. Does it have a mag box that might be in upside down or front to back? Even famous rifle reviewers get caught out with this. edi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Never had one of the little sako's.Does it have a mag box that might be in upside down or front to back? Even famous rifle reviewers get caught out with this. edi Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteL Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 John, A suggestion: Put a thin washer under the heads of the action screws, then tighten as normal. If the problem is then solved, it may well be that the screws are too long ????. Perhaps the stock has compressed during storage so that the screws are now, effectively, too long?. Just a thought. Find out why this has happened before grinding the screws to fit. Did you dismantle the rifle before storage and may not have reassembled it properly. I had this trouble on my CZ527 and eventually found that the mag box wasn't fitting properly into the bottom of the action. I think ejg223 alluded to this also. OTOH, there could be a fault with the stock. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Had another look just now. There doesn't appear to be any stock damage that my untrained eye can spot, but there still could be something wrong with it I'm not seeing. I'm sorry, I still can't find the digital camera lead, the camera phone doesn't go into that kind of detail. The rifle was not disassembled for storage, as I assumed (wrongly) I'd get to use it over the summer so it stayed intact, save for the magazine and bolt being removed and stored in a seperate safe. The magazine holder is snug in it's proper position and doesn't move or appear damaged or scuffed. The longer rear action screw will screw into the forward hole but sticks out a fair bit while the shorter forward screw won't engage with the rear action screw hole with the stock on, so it's not possible to mix them up. I did take the stock off and screw in the action screws without it. The rear one, which is longer than the front stopped the bolt in its tracks when the screw was in fully as it moved up into the place where the bolt travels (sorry not so good on technical terms). I played around with this but I didn't get the same tight stiff feeling as when the stock is on and the screws are hand tight. With the stock back on, the bolt slides wonderfully while the action screws are in but loose enough to turn with a fingernail. Tighten them up and the bolt becomes progressively stiffer until it reaches my normal hand tight position (again, not superman tight). It will be Friday or the weekend before I can go washer shopping, I guess that's the next move. Thanks for the replies guys, they're much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Is there any tell tale marks on the bolt? You could always use marker pen and when dry refit. If the bolt length or some other burr etc is the cause then this would show. What happens if you just tighten one screw with the other just fingernail tight? Does one make a difference and not the other? if so which one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Is there any tell tale marks on the bolt?You could always use marker pen and when dry refit. If the bolt length or some other burr etc is the cause then this would show. What happens if you just tighten one screw with the other just fingernail tight? Does one make a difference and not the other? if so which one. There are some marks Eldon, could be from normal wear and tear though. I'm going to level this place in the morning looking for the camera lead I know it's here. I left both screws to a position I could tighten with just my fingernail. Bolt works great. I then tightened the front screw with the screwdriver to handtight, bolt worked good. I slackened the front screw again, then tightened the rear screw to handtight and Heuston we have a problem! So the rear action bolt is looking like our main suspect. Tomorrow afternoon I'll try to locate some type of washer in the local town (not much choice I'm afraid) to try Petes suggestion. Is it possible for a synthetic stock to change so as to make an action screw too long? As it is synthetic and not wood or laminate. I'm only speculating now but could something be bending slightly? Either way it's looking like something to do with the rear action screw. How it happened is bugging me. For those contributing to this thread, thank you, and I'm sorry updates are taking a while, day to day life is interfering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted October 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Something else I tried just now, not sure if it means anything but I'll put it out there. Front action screw is handtight, rear action screw is basically loose, not even fingernail tight. I grip the rear scope mount and pull upwards, the bolt moves well. I push down firmly on the rear scope mount, the bolt doesn't move as freely. I can hear the action moving a tiny bit mostly when I pull up, but to a lesser degree when I push down. Don't know if that information is worth anything but ye guys know a hell of a lot more than me so thought I'd mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldon Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Might sound a pain, but with your last comments why not take the mounts off and then tighten both screws and see how that is. The plastic stock wont be rigid enough to twist the action surely but maybe it is bringing something else into play like a long scope mount screw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteL Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 John, I agree with Eldon, remove your scope and mounts, tighten the action screws as normal. If the bolt is then ok, its to do with the scope mount screws. Before removing the mounts, however, see if you can feel an overlong screw with your finger. The other possibility is that tightening the action screws is bending the action because there may be something amiss with the bedding. The stock, plastic or not will almost certainly be rigid enough to induce a bend in the action body if the screws are tightened as they should be. Just how you could check for bedding alignment, I don't know, perhaps we have a real live gunsmith who can answer that. Just a thought, though, it's a Quad, so you can remove the barrel, right?. OK take the barrel off and fit the action back in the stock, only using the screws for location. Leave out the floorplate. Then see if the action "rocks" end to end(back to front) in the stock. If it does then it may be a bedding problem. Well, you can try that if all else fails. I would tend to go for the above scope mount test first. I am not familiar with the rifle so please ignore if this is a silly question. Are there any action pillars?. If there are supposed to be some and they are not in place, that will cause a problem by compressing the stock and effectively making the screws too long or inducing a bend in the action. Hope that helps. Let us know how you get on. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted November 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 I left the whole problem for a while. Got fed up thinking about it Tonight I spied the plastic packet my Trulock chokes came in. I cut three layers and made a cut out that the rear action screw could go through, A bit like a square captial C if you get what I mean rather than a square with a hole in the centre. ---------- Sorry, I left out the important bit didn't I.... I put the three layers in between the action and the stock. ------------------------ Seems to have done the trick, the bolt is free again. I am still not 100% whether the action was being ever so slightly twisted or whether the rear action screw is now, for whatever reason (I'd guess some type of stock compression?) too long. First half decent day this week I need to remount the scope and shoot it. Got a lot of .22lr rounds to shoot before I get my HMR barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n8ess Posted November 10, 2008 Report Share Posted November 10, 2008 Why you guys on on this subject, have any of you had problems with the last round feeding correctly, I was having problems with my 9 shot mag in 17hmr, just thought It may be a dodgy magazine? I fitted the 22 barrel at the weekend and found I was having the same problem? Hope someone can help Cheers Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streeker59 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Why you guys on on this subject, have any of you had problems with the last round feeding correctly, I was having problems with my 9 shot mag in 17hmr, just thought It may be a dodgy magazine? I fitted the 22 barrel at the weekend and found I was having the same problem? Hope someone can help Cheers Neil Sorry it's taken awhile to reply to this Neil. Are you using 9 round mags in .22lr as well ? It's common for the 9 round mags to suffer this problem. Especially if you're in the habit of keeping the mags loaded at home instead of loading them when about to shoot. I made this mistake with my 9 round mags.. Basically, the follower spring becomes weak and cant push the last round up against the mag lips with sufficient pressure. This lack of upward pressure causes the last round to attempt to enter the chamber at the wrong angle, hence the hang up.. I gave up with the 9 rounders and just stick to the 5's Rgds, Grant.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n8ess Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hi Grant, Thanks for the reply, I have two 9 shot mags and two 5 shot for the 17, and I always unload them at the end of a session, I was hoping when I changed the barrel over to the 22 the problem would be resovled and I could put it down to a couple of dodgy mags, the funny thing is in the 17 it is the 9th round that caused the jam with the 5 shot mags working perfectly fine. I only bought 5 shot mags for use my 22 barrel, as like you I thought the 9 round mag may be the problem. I have only put about a 100 rounds through the 22 and it has jammed on the last round on about 3 occasions. however I went out last Friday and never had a jam in 5 mags, its just frustrating at night when your on the back of a truck the rifle jams and get you can't see what's happening. Cheers Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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