Hornady !

[onehole]

Thought I would raise this again ,,,most of us know about the all too often inconsistency with bullets from this manufacturer whether its bullets within in a box or from lot to lot  etc but for the benefit of all and especially newcomers to the forum and especially to those that are new to home loading I have taken a picture of two boxes of 224  60gn Vmax and jotted down the ogive and OAL measurements that represent touching the lands in my 223 rifle. This is pretty bad with over 40 thou adrift and pretty much means that if one of you new handloaders assumed you were going to still be say 20 thou off lands with your new box of bullets you would actually be stuffing them over twenty thou IN  !!!!!check everything  !! Take care people,,,,,,,,,O

 

 

[DaveT]

Had similar with 129g SST IN 6.5..... annoying!

[Re-Pete]

Found this with two boxes of allegedly same batch Norma 6.5mm 130gr Diamonds a couple of years ago...........nearly 1mm difference.

Re-Pete

[MJR]

Onehole, not sure I follow your reasoning? Whilst i'd agree the variance in length to ogive is not ideal surely if reloaders are measuring oal using a comparator then any variance in length will be accommodated by pushing more bullet into the case neck rather than moving closer to the lands?

[gunner]

They could be completely different copper cups made on 2 different machines ? Or tooling being warn maybe . Also iv only ever measure to tip i dont own a comparator - but deffo agree they need checking , then theres powder variation batches and so on . Those put together without checking is a recipe for disaster maybe ... 

[Andrew]

So how do these awful Hornady bullets shoot??~Andrew

[DaveT]

I think the OP was warning about potential pressure issues rather than commenting on accuracy.

[onehole]

3 hours ago, MJR said:

Onehole, not sure I follow your reasoning? Whilst i'd agree the variance in length to ogive is not ideal surely if reloaders are measuring oal using a comparator then any variance in length will be accommodated by pushing more bullet into the case neck rather than moving closer to the lands?

Basically one should not think that on buying another box of "the same" bullets but different "lot" or "batch" etc that you can simply use the same measurements as before whether ogive or OAL using comparator bushings or OAL on your calipers.....If you were loading with your old lot of bullets to say 2.318 OAL as in my rifle {10 thou off} for example and I just simply reloaded to the same setting I would be loading 35 thou into the lands had I not checked the fit of the new bullet in my chamber ,,,,In addition these variances in manufacture can also work the other way and get you loading further away from the lands. MJR you are certainly correct variances can easily be accommodated..

The post was more directed to those either unaware of these sometimes huge variances or starting out,,,,regds ,,O

[onehole]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

So how do these awful Hornady bullets shoot??~Andrew

Very well,,,,!!!!

[onehole]

37 minutes ago, DaveT said:

I think the OP was warning about potential pressure issues rather than commenting on accuracy.

Correct,,,,should have stated the pressure implications ,,,thanks,,,,,O

[MJR]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

So how do these awful Hornady bullets shoot??~Andrew

Quite well and better if batched according to bearing surface length when I use 105 Amax.

[MJR]

One hole, agreed, no one should assume a new box of bullets are the same as the last.

But I'm still not following your reasoning? Are you measuring coal of a loaded round to see the variances or from base of case to bullet ogive? 

[onehole]

1 hour ago, MJR said:

One hole, agreed, no one should assume a new box of bullets are the same as the last.

But I'm still not following your reasoning? Are you measuring coal of a loaded round to see the variances or from base of case to bullet ogive?

You can use either,,,,as long as you have measured the bullets in the chamber at "touching lands" The problem with all bullets and when using a comparator bushing is that the hole in the bushing can only pick up on the bullet at a certain place or  where the bullet is fat enough along the ogive and this can vary due to the bullet "variances",,,,Unless all bullets are exactly the same differences in measurement will show up,,,it just seems Hornady tolerate many different shapes for the same bullet,,,,,I have a batch of 6mm 75Max that is 50 thou different from another batch/lot when in the correct position in my 6BR,,,,,,,,sorry MJR if I,m not explaining this well,,,or am I,,,,?? regds ,,,O

 

[Andrew]

1 hour ago, onehole said:

Correct,,,,should have stated the pressure implications ,,,thanks,,,,,O

I doubt you have anything to worry about. I have shot Hornady bullets for years and years and never measured an ogive, nor had any untoward pressure excursions. One of the things to realize about Hornady bullets is that they are not considered a premium bullet. Their Match bullets are the cheapest available in the US market -yet they shoot remarkably well. On the other end of the spectrum, their Varmint bullet are likewise priced yet shoot very well.  In light of performance and economy delivered, I have a hard time looking for inadequacies. ~Andrew

[phaedra1106uk]

I've been following this with interest.  I usually shoot either Nosler Custom Competition or Lapua Scenars, both are extremely consistent in terms of both measurement and weight.

My usual supplier was offering some Hornady Match quite a bit cheaper so I bought a few thousand in 6.5 (140) and .308 (168) to try, I've been very happy with them so far (still on the first 500 box of each), I checked the case base/ogive length when I loaded them to Saami spec length and they were about 20 thou" off my lands in the .308 and 30 thou" in the 6.5Creedmoor. 

I took 5 bullets from each 500 box last night to compare and I have to say that over 20 of each bullet they only measured a maximum of 7 thou" difference, most were within 4 thou", not quite as consistent as the Noslers or Lapuas but certainly very close.

[onehole]

I,m going to push this post on a bit more,,,,,,,,mainly because of reading the last comment on this topic. You took 5 bullets from each box and saw a 7 thou swing ,,,was this OAL of the bullets or a base to ogive with a comparator bushing? out of interest. I will go back to my original post and the two boxes of 60 Vmax,,,what I did not quote were the differences in bullet base to ogive using a comparator and the base to tip OAL.....The old box on the left gave .472 and .872 and the new box on the right gave .465 and .869 and these figures were pretty consistent for the rest of the bullets in the boxes {yes I measured each one!} The problem is that one should not be thrown into thinking that this is the limitation of any difference that will be seen when assembling rounds using your same ogive or OAL figures when starting on a new lot/batch of bullets. You HAVE to go back and measure where the true positioning is in your rifles chamber at touching the lands take that measurement whether based on an ogive contact or OAL and use this as a base for where you might then decide to load your bullet. It should be noted that even the small? differences seen in my bullets ,,,7 and 3 thou were totally misleading as regard to the difference in measurement when the bullet is actually sat at the rifles lands.,,,over 40 thou!!!...It is the difference in the whole bullets shape{including width} that can do this.  I,m sorry if my explanation or reasoning is muddled but again the post is directed to those unaware or new to the game that I,m trying to reach. Have a good one,,,,Onehole

[phaedra1106uk]

Bullets were measured from bullet base to ogive using a comparator nut, most were within 2 to 4 thou" with a couple at 6 to 7 thou".  Measuring the Nosler Custom Competition or Lapua Scenar the same way results in around a 2 thou" maximum difference.

 

The comparator nut isn't the most accurate method but results were pretty consistent.  I've loaded and fired both the .30 and 6.5mm at 200yds and compared them to the Noslers, the .30's were almost the same but the 6.5's grouping was around .5" to .75" larger.

[VarmLR]

I don't follow some of the reasoning in this thread.  It's not at all unusual to see variations of 20 thou base to ogive within the same box, never mind between batches (175 SMK anyone?).  As long as the COAL is measured by dropping said bullets into the chamber and using something like the Hornady OAL guage (or other variations or methods to achieve the same), the ogive profile consistency is what matters since you measure using any comparator the OAL of the dummy cartridge where the bullet comes up to the lands.  There can be 100 thou variation in base to Ogive and it wouldn't alter the COAL. I wouldn't use a comparator nut.  Found them way too crude a device to achieve consistency.

[onehole]

45 minutes ago, VarmLR said:

I don't follow some of the reasoning in this thread.  It's not at all unusual to see variations of 20 thou base to ogive within the same box, never mind between batches (175 SMK anyone?).  As long as the COAL is measured by dropping said bullets into the chamber and using something like the Hornady OAL guage (or other variations or methods to achieve the same), the ogive profile consistency is what matters since you measure using any comparator the OAL of the dummy cartridge where the bullet comes up to the lands.  There can be 100 thou variation in base to Ogive and it wouldn't alter the COAL. I wouldn't use a comparator nut.  Found them way too crude a device to achieve consistency.

Exactly Varm,,,,,the variations can be a lot even in a box and as you rightly say as long as one finds out where your new batch of bullets comes up to the lands then job done but if you did not check this and used previous measurements and settings assuming you are still going to be 5,,10,,,or 20 thou off lands then you could be very very wrong,,,,,,thats the point I,m trying to get across to the unaware or newbies,,,,,,,,,O