.224 Valkyrie

[baldie]

Hmmn. 

A cartridge designed for the AR15 which gives a sizeable improvement over the .223.

Obviously the name piqued my interest initially, and a good root around on the net yielded little info, apart from what Federal have put out there in range test days.

Basically a necked down 6.8SPC they say.

Talk about NOT telling the whole story.

I ordered a reamer from Dave Manson, who hadn't even got a drawing for it a month ago. They were straight onto it, and a reamer and gauges landed last week, along with a very comprehensive reamer print, with loads of useful extra info.

Into the lathe went a Pacnor varmint blank, and I re profiled it to an AR friendly lump.

Duly chambered in .224 Valkyrie , its a 1 in 7" twist, which should shoot 80 grain bullets, from the mag.

However, Federal are quoting 2750-2800 with a 90 grain slug. This, to me, is not much improvement over a 223 with 77's.

I decided to think backwards. The yanks are pushing this as a capable 1000 yard cartridge. We don't do, or need that for CSR here, 600 yards is its maximum.

Wonder what it will do with a 77 SMK ?

Better still a 70 grain Nosler RDF, which I rate highly. I think it will easily shove one of those at 3100. Plus, they will go in a mag. The 70g nosler won't fit a 223 at AR mag length.

As is always the way with the yanks.....its allover everywhere, and there are no bits for it. Serves me right for jumping the gun. No brass and no dies yet, but set to change at the SHOT show apparently.

Good old Spud has me a proper set of dies on order for it now, and they are eagerly anticipated.

However, impatient git that I am, I had some 6.8 brass and dies. I knocked one down and stuck it in the mag. Never going to hold a 90 grain bullet that....

Got the reamer print out and compared it to the 6.8SPC print.

The shoulder is over 0.080" further back.

Into the lathe went the die, and after much messing about, and 3 necking down procedures, I have a slack handful of brass that will chamber, and fireform.

I have to try it, and get some proof cases, but I'm buggered if I'm doing this to 200 cases....life is too short.

Mission accomplished though, most likely the first one in the chambering in the UK.

I am really looking forward to shooting this case.

The yanks said the Valkyrie couldn't be made from the SPC case.........Wrong. 

[Scotch_egg]

I like it Dave. 

 

Whay length barrel did you go for? 

[baldie]

A 20" Scotch.

The gun still has to be manoeverable.

[Scotch_egg]

I have done a little research. The figures quoted for the 90gr bullets were in a 24” test rifle. 

It would appear that most folk are looking at keeping the barrels short like you though. 

 

Do you anticipate any extraction issues in the straighpull configuration? 

[baldie]

I wouldn't have thought so.Its a shorter case than its parent, and that extracts. Dropping the bore size will up the pressure, but the neck is tiny in comparison.. All areas that can grab less.

There is a lot that can be done internally to minimise case grab.

[baldie]

I collected it from proof today, and its fired cases which look just fine. One is a 5% overload and the other a 10% overload. Plenty of room to go yet methinks.

I'm estimating around 28-29 grains of vhit 140/Varget/Rel 15 etc will be around right, but its all going to be trial and error.

The cartridge hasn't been released yet, but apparently its been submitted to both SAAMI and CIP, and is probably done now.

Official launch at SHOT later this month, but this is the first in the UK.

Now the pleasurable task of making some more brass.

Suddenly , plaiting my rectal hairs, holds some appeal. 

[visiter1]

Fantastic could be a great alrounder

[gbal]

If so marketed,it may well be a fast twist 224-for 90g new Sierras,eg-from the box bolt action-with 22/250  capacity  performance.What's not to like?

Of course,it is AR15  platform compatible too (but so was the recent 22 Nosler).Maybe it will be more successful in that niche-for longer range mouses?   :-)

gbal

[The Gun Pimp]

Bring it up to Diggle next time you visit Dave - I'd love to see it.  Might re-barrel my AR in this round.

I've asked a couple of the guys going over to the Shot Show to try and blag me the odd case.

 

 

[baldie]

The .22 Nosler has one major flaw...its a rebated case...and an AR15 will shred it , in short order. Plus, apparently, sources say the primer pockets trash after 2 firings.

I've just ordered a couple of Die sets from brownells [rcbs, hate the brand ] and Spud has some Redding on order for me.

I will bring it Vince, and the offer of the reamer is there , should you fancy a punt.

[Laurie]

Sounds fun - I hope it shoots well.

[The Gun Pimp]

I definitely 'fancy a punt' Dave - how about the larger bolt face?  Are these readily available?

 

[baldie]

Yes Vince, though not particularly cheap. i get mine from Brownells, and will be having some more when they have sorted the license issue they have at the mo.

On the bolt gun front, I will be getting some 6.8SPC bolt heads in , for the bighorn actions. These are tailor made for the Valkyrie, as they are CRF.

[simgre]

I have a 6.8 SPC Remington LTR. This could be the answer to what is a very underwhelming parent cartridge...!

[baldie]

Definately. I wish I could drop on a few of the remmy's, don't think it ever sold well here.

A simple barrel change, and I would think the standard magazine will work too.

[The Gun Pimp]

Sounds as though the 224 Valkyrie is creating a lot of interest at the Shot Show Media Day - I've got the barrel-blank ready Dave.........

God knows when we will get some brass - GMK are the Federal importer.  Redding are already listing dies in their 2018 catalogue.

Incidentally - I'm using a caseful H4350 in my 22 Dasher with 80gn (Moly) bullets - something similar might work in the Valkyrie.

[Laurie]

Estimates from the US suggest the Valkyrie will have considerably less case capacity than the Dasher, Vince - around 34.5gn water 'overflow'. That puts it between the 223 Rem (29-31gn depending on make of brass) and the Dasher (40-41gn), but closer to the 223 value. It apparently has a little less capacity than the 'straight' .22BR (~36.0gn overflow water capacity).

I would expect powders within the 'VarGet' to H4350 powder characteristics range to suit the Valkyrie well. For velocity hounds, the usual 'winner' might come tops (again) - Reload Swiss RS60 / Elcho-17 / Re17 - but I suspect that RS52 will be a very effective propellant in this combination. (Thinking 90gn bullets.)

For 80gn bracket bullets, faster burning powders than the 4350s / RS60/62 / IMR-4451 options will likely be a better match - RS52 again, Re15, IMR-4166.

[baldie]

Starline also have brass in production.

I have RCBS die sets inbound now. 

[1967spud]

1 hour ago, baldie said:

Starline also have brass in production.

I have RCBS die sets inbound now. 

rcbs?

 

[bradders]

5 minutes ago, 1967spud said:

rcbs?

 

Looks like it, an R followed by a C followed by a B and finally a S 

[bradders]

1 minute ago, bradders said:

Double tappo

 

[1967spud]

1 hour ago, bradders said:

Looks like it, an R followed by a C followed by a B and finally a S 

Capital C little o another curly c and bringing up the rear a kicking K

[The Gun Pimp]

15 hours ago, Laurie said:

Estimates from the US suggest the Valkyrie will have considerably less case capacity than the Dasher, Vince - around 34.5gn water 'overflow'. That puts it between the 223 Rem (29-31gn depending on make of brass) and the Dasher (40-41gn), but closer to the 223 value. It apparently has a little less capacity than the 'straight' .22BR (~36.0gn overflow water capacity).

I would expect powders within the 'VarGet' to H4350 powder characteristics range to suit the Valkyrie well. For velocity hounds, the usual 'winner' might come tops (again) - Reload Swiss RS60 / Elcho-17 / Re17 - but I suspect that RS52 will be a very effective propellant in this combination. (Thinking 90gn bullets.)

For 80gn bracket bullets, faster burning powders than the 4350s / RS60/62 / IMR-4451 options will likely be a better match - RS52 again, Re15, IMR-4166.

Laurie - Makes you wonder how they are getting the claimed 1300 fps terminal velocity at 1000 yds with a 90gn bullet. 

These ballistics are very close to the Dasher with a 80gn bullet.

[Laurie]

54 minutes ago, The Gun Pimp said:

Laurie - Makes you wonder how they are getting the claimed 1300 fps terminal velocity at 1000 yds with a 90gn bullet. 

These ballistics are very close to the Dasher with a 80gn bullet.

 

The 90 offers a fair ballistic upgrade from an 80gn VLD. With a (Litz) 0.259 G7 BC, the 90gn SMK  needs 2,810 fps MV to achieve 1,300 fps at 1,000 yards in standard meteorological conditions. Bearing in mind 223 Rem is routinely producing 2,825-2,850 fps in 30-32 inch F/TR rifles in current US F-Class where the 90gn Berger VLD - 223 combination has become at the very least the equal of 308 in mid range matches, the Valkyrie achieving 2,810 fps doesn't look too surprising.

The key unknown issues are the pressures being run and the barrel length that is used for those performance quotes - no doubt there will be more information  around now after its formal  and public debut at SHOT. I' doubt if it'll be from 18 or 20 inch barrels though, maybe 24-inches, but we'll see.

Another question in my mind yet to be answered and I can't make my mind up from the photos is primer size (the parent 6.8 case can have either depending on the make ) and whether Federal beefed up the case-head / web area to take higher pressures than the Remington (large primer) version of the 6.8 case can take.

I think that Federal has done this one really well, and by contrast Nosler has got it 100% wrong at least as an AR-15 match cartridge, the 22 Nosler going to disappear in short order. By reducing the 6.8 case length and adopting the relatively short Sierra MK, the Federal number is a repeat of the 6.5X47L and Creedmoor saga as against the 260 - a shorter case within a magazine / action determined COAL allowing the use of heavier / longer bullets without excessively deep seating. The over engineered Nosler with its rebated rim design has actually increased case length over that of the parent 6.8 leaving less room for protruding bullet nose within the 2.26" COAL ceiling. Nosler obviously went  for extra capacity and paper MV performance with lighter bullets, but in doing so reduced the cartridge's utility.

As reported in the Accurate Shooter Bulletin SHOT Show report, Federal has also learned the lessons of the Creedmoor's runaway success - get everything set up in advance with multiple partners - magazines, bolts, barrels, ready built 'uppers'', chamber reamers, dies, components, .......... and a whole raft of rifle manufacturers and builders from small / specialist shops to Savage and other majors offering attractive rifles in the calibre from day one, in this case MSRs (Modern Sporting Rifles or ARs to you and me).

Sierra has also done an excellent improvement job in recent times on its 90gn MatchKIng which was the poorest of the original bunch of 0.224" super-heavies, so much so that I always advised people to avoid it for F/TR. It was originally devised for the single-loaded 600 yard stage in US XTC competition, but the need for a claimed 6.5-inch rifling twist and ballistics that gave no benefits over 80s in a 20-inch competition AR barrel allied to a reputation for blowing up in flight if driven to over 2,600 fps in bolt-guns made it a pretty useless tool in any role. The current 90 SMK has been beefed up for any sensible pressure / MV level, is much better made (more consistent dimensions) than it used to be and is now factory pointed. The reports from American F/TR shooters are now so good I went out and bought a 500-ct box recently from Henry Krank for my new F-Class 223 Rem. 

 

[baldie]

8 hours ago, 1967spud said:

rcbs?

 

I ordered a couple of sets as Brownells had them in. Don't worry mucker, I still want the redding ones you ordered for me, i only use redding personally .