Walter Mitty Foxing.

[22cf]

I’ve been reading some posts this morning on a facebook foxing page that really made me smile. Some guy claimed to be shooting foxes out to 450yds at night with a10x drone, what really made me smile was the video footage he posted claiming to substantiate it.

Assuming his rifle was set up with 100yd or even 200yd zero, his 22-250 rifle with a 50 grain bullet at 3800fps will drop 24-30”. Yet during the video you see him giving the shot no such hold over. I use a Photon 6x50 RT myself with a 1.7 doubler which would give me 11x mag which is very similar to the 10x mag on the drone. I’m aware the optics on a drone is better than the photon but 10x mag is 10x mag. Having viewed the video of the “450yd” Hollywood shot I’d suggest the shot was neared 250yds than 450yds. 

To make the shot even more ridiculous the fox was clearly running up and down a bank which would alter the drop considerably at that range and we haven’t even started talking about bullet drift due to wind.

Why do they do it ?

I’ve been shooting foxes under the lamp and more recently with a thermal spotter and NV gear for well over 10 years. I’ve shot them with a .17hmr, .22lr, .222rem, .223rem, .223ai, .22-250rem, .243win and even a 6x47SM. I have come to the conclusion that the .223rem is my ideal foxing rifle because the normal foxing range is 50-150yds with occasional 200-250yd extended shots. Why do people write such nonsense ?

 I was recently chatting to the guys at Pulsar and the topic of “imaginative shooters” arose during our conversation. Apparently they set up some targets at a game fair at various ranges , they then asked various shooters  how far away they thought the targets were. The results were rather  interesting, nobody got close to all target ranges but most were 100yd+ out over 350yds.

I suspect if the same experiment was carried out at night the results would be worse. Add to the difficulty of accurately ranging a fox at night without a rangefinder the difficulty of shooting at a Fox running around giving only a few seconds to take the shot and then the problem of assessing the wind and then the issues  uneven ground or trying to shoot from a wing mirror/bonnet/ Shooting sticks and this shot gets more unlikely.

is it just me shooting foxes at 50-250yds or are 450yd shots under the lamp the norm, if so can someone show me how. If it is done I suspect it’s a case of seeing some eyeshine at Xtreme ranges and taking a speculative pot shot.

 

[Furyan]

You got link ?

[22cf]

Search PBIR on facebook.

[gbal]

22cf, quite so :the objective data are (+/- an inch or so etc,)

22-250 50 g @3850,BC .24,drop and drift"   10 mph wind,200 zero::

300y -5/9.4. 400y -15/18

and Ackley etc don't change that too much- try a 55 243w @ 3910 300y -4/8 and 400 y  13/15

Of course,as you hint,if you don't measure precisely.
"the sight of data is simply shocking-

And heaven knows,any thing goes_"

:-).  

 

[treetop]

Lol, 

It does make me laugh at the wildly exaggerated distances, as well as the hype given to 1 particular IR torch - that nothing in the world can match or beat ! 

i shoot with a pal & we both have standard 6.5 photons with ludicrous T67 mk2 's ( or evo, or what ever they are called now ) 

We both regularly have taken rabbits out to 250 yards & I think the longest fox was about 200 .. easy for us as we both zero at 70 yards & 2nd zero is 195 yards,  and 1" under at 220, 2.5" at 250 .. so there is not much guess work involved. But I would never push on from that as 1 it drops like a stone & 2 not much point ...

Best not to challenge there data though, or you may suddenly find that the BS gang close ranks

oh well ! 

 

[6.5shooter]

There used to bea guy onhere called “Ronny”..........

[22cf]

1 hour ago, 6.5shooter said:

There used to bea guy onhere called “Ronny”..........

I’m sure even Ronny wouldn’t have made such outrageous claims ?

[weejohn]

I was reading the topic earlier . 

When it comes to judging distance at night it's quite simple , i use a scope mounted rangefinder . 

[justin credible]

I use a drone pro with a 22BR shooting a 52gr amax zeroed an inch high at 100 and its pretty much cross hair on target to around 270 yds.

Furthest one I have shot was ranged with a mates military night vision with built in rangefinder to 348yds and that was definately NOT a cross hair on target job.......so as we all know, cross hair on target at night at 450yds is big Billy Bullsh&t.

[Kevgun]

With a Drone x 10 using the rangefinding reticule you have the central floating cross

then intersections, my .22.250 @3600 FPS with a scope height of 2.5” above the bore and a 100 yard Zero using 50 grain  Vmax

450 yard would be holding over to the 2nd intersection, so definitely not x cross hairs on target at 450.

Yep that Torch does get a lot of hype, you can buy the same thing from Nightvision store for £30 less

[phoenix]

Seems like PBIR's page is the home for all foxshooting bullsh****rs

PBIR doesn't even make the pill that goes into the sunnranger, and he didn't bother to ask permission of the guy who actually invented the sunnranger to use the name.

Kevgun is correct, Nightvision Store sells them for less and if you can use a hacksaw, you can build one from a basic T20 illuminator and Yukon 3x42 lens for even less.

There are plenty of IR illuminators out there that project a beam of IR further than a Sunnranger, but for it's size and weight it's more than good enough for foxes out to sensible distances.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[Akeld]

1 hour ago, Kevgun said:

 

Yep that Torch does get a lot of hype, you can buy the same thing from Nightvision store for £30 less

Or make one yourself

[Furyan]

18 hours ago, 22cf said:

Search PBIR on facebook.

thought it might be that one , Ill stick to my T50 blacksun and home made NV does me out to 177yds on fox.

[Kevgun]

Yep, that's what i do make em myself.

[plonker dave]

I couldn't even shoot a fox at 450 yards in the day!!

If I can' place the dot of the 6.5 photon on a specific area of the fox then I'm too far away.

I have shot a fox at 220m with the lamp off a bipod and with a quality scope,but not the photon.

That' the beauty of nv,turn it off,walk 30/60 yards closer then shoot.

Atb dave 

[gunner]

I remember talking to a young-ish lad at work ( different customer every week fittin kitchens ) think he was electrical apprentice and he boasted his mate shot a fox at 1 & ½ miles , i refraned from laughing and asked with what caliber ? To which he answered a 22 . I said nothing more knowing that must be BS 

[gbal]

Gunner,most of us will recall the 22rf box "Dangeous within a mile",though some US brands now say within 1.5 miles. Maybe young Sparky saw this.

22rf 40g @1200 fps fired at optimum elevation with trajectory zenith at 1300 feet,wil return to level earth at 2300y (1.3 miles).Maybe a tail wind would increase that a bit, but it would not increase terminal energy (under 5 ft lb)

    IF there were a fox ,with a flea, just at the impact point,then the flea would be in mortal danger (if a bit unlucky).The fox(and flea) might well be  moving.

Shooting a (moving ) flea at 1.5 miles is  some shot.Finding the dead flea for confirmation would be difficult,of course.        :-)

gbal

[Crumpy]

On 30/11/2017 at 2:36 PM, 22cf said:

I’ve been reading some posts this morning on a facebook foxing page that really made me smile. Some guy claimed to be shooting foxes out to 450yds at night with a10x drone, what really made me smile was the video footage he posted claiming to substantiate it.

Assuming his rifle was set up with 100yd or even 200yd zero, his 22-250 rifle with a 50 grain bullet at 3800fps will drop 24-30”. Yet during the video you see him giving the shot no such hold over. I use a Photon 6x50 RT myself with a 1.7 doubler which would give me 11x mag which is very similar to the 10x mag on the drone. I’m aware the optics on a drone is better than the photon but 10x mag is 10x mag. Having viewed the video of the “450yd” Hollywood shot I’d suggest the shot was neared 250yds than 450yds. 

To make the shot even more ridiculous the fox was clearly running up and down a bank which would alter the drop considerably at that range and we haven’t even started talking about bullet drift due to wind.

Why do they do it ?

I’ve been shooting foxes under the lamp and more recently with a thermal spotter and NV gear for well over 10 years. I’ve shot them with a .17hmr, .22lr, .222rem, .223rem, .223ai, .22-250rem, .243win and even a 6x47SM. I have come to the conclusion that the .223rem is my ideal foxing rifle because the normal foxing range is 50-150yds with occasional 200-250yd extended shots. Why do people write such nonsense ?

 I was recently chatting to the guys at Pulsar and the topic of “imaginative shooters” arose during our conversation. Apparently they set up some targets at a game fair at various ranges , they then asked various shooters  how far away they thought the targets were. The results were rather  interesting, nobody got close to all target ranges but most were 100yd+ out over 350yds.

I suspect if the same experiment was carried out at night the results would be worse. Add to the difficulty of accurately ranging a fox at night without a rangefinder the difficulty of shooting at a Fox running around giving only a few seconds to take the shot and then the problem of assessing the wind and then the issues  uneven ground or trying to shoot from a wing mirror/bonnet/ Shooting sticks and this shot gets more unlikely.

is it just me shooting foxes at 50-250yds or are 450yd shots under the lamp the norm, if so can someone show me how. If it is done I suspect it’s a case of seeing some eyeshine at Xtreme ranges and taking a speculative pot shot.

 

It’ll be my shots youre on about then!!! The shot was taken prone off a bipod using a 243win and Norma 58gr Vmax, you assume on your calculations I zero at 100yds, I don’t, that it was a speculative pot shot, it wasn’t, I picked both foxes, that there was wind, there wasn’t a breath, I’m pleased you’ve been shooting foxes for over 10 years, I’ve been shooting them for over 35 and don’t really know why I’m bothering replying to your accusations of being a Walter Mitty but as you werent there, you don’t know the ground, and you certainly don’t know me, take the piss all you want pal it makes no odds to me but you can shove YOUR nonsense up your arse!

[phoenix]

The map proves nothing, but you attitude says a lot.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[simon6ppc]

On 11/30/2017 at 3:01 PM, Furyan said:

You got link ?

i want to comment on this without being rude or insulting to any one,i know some of the folk commenting on this thread are brilliant long range shooters who know their gear inside and out,but also believe it or not there are one or two fox shooters of the same caliber, i to have spent 33 years shooting foxes on grouse moors and farm land,for most of that time ive used a 6ppc rifle with a 58 vmax, ive shot this rifle over 500 yards on steel in good conditions in the day,so when you have been on  the same moor for 30 years and used the same rifle for 20 years a 300 plus yard shot on a fox is not easy but possible in good conditions,only last week i shot one at 342 yards and 4 more just under 300 as moor land foxes don,t hang about,the videos are on PBIR to prove it with the dead foxes,,i hope this has slightly cleared things up as i have said at the start i know there are good lads on this thread who know their stuff...,cheers...

[AnthonyR]

6 hours ago, Crumpy said:

It’ll be my shots youre on about then!!! The shot was taken prone off a bipod using a 243win and Norma 58gr Vmax, you assume on your calculations I zero at 100yds, I don’t, that it was a speculative pot shot, it wasn’t, I picked both foxes, that there was wind, there wasn’t a breath, I’m pleased you’ve been shooting foxes for over 10 years, I’ve been shooting them for over 35 and don’t really know why I’m bothering replying to your accusations of being a Walter Mitty but as you werent there, you don’t know the ground, and you certainly don’t know me, take the piss all you want pal it makes no odds to me but you can shove YOUR nonsense up your arse!

Where is the link to the video, not trying to knock you at all, just interested?

 

[Crumpy]

2 hours ago, phoenix said:

The map proves nothing, but you attitude says a lot.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

Maybe not to you Bruce but it gave me the distance on the night, my response I feel was justified to a post basically mocking me!

atb

Crumpy

[22cf]

44 minutes ago, Crumpy said:

Maybe not to you Bruce but it gave me the distance on the night, my response I feel was justified to a post basically mocking me!

atb

Crumpy

Crummy, Please post the video up here, it was initially quoted as a 22-250, now it’s a 243Win.

It was initially quoted as 450yds but now its 396m (433yds). You may think I’m being a little pedantic but at these ranges the 17m makes a huge difference when Shooting vermin even in daylight, let alone at night.

It really doesn’t matter what caliber it was either at 450yds because it doesnt make much difference to the holdover in these two caliber,  especially when you’re guessing at night. You’re not going to make an accurate assessment of distance at night on a fox that’s running around like the fox in your video was. 

If you playback the video you will see the shot taker didn’t give the fox 24+ inches of holdover which is what a 450yd shot would require.

My beef with your post wasn’t the fact that you shoot foxes, I shoot them myself, it wasn’t the fact that you shot it at an extended range either. My issue with your post is that as someone that shoots foxes at night with 11x NV and thermal gear I know that there is absolutely no way that fox was at 450yds, the sight picture wasn’t right for a fox at 450yds through a 10x drone. In addition you didn’t give it the requisite hold over for a rifle sighted at 100 or even 200yds and in addition to that you or your Shooting buddy didn’t range the fox to confirm the range/holdover.

Hence you would have taken a speculative 450yd pot shot at a fox, which for me isn’t right.

As it happens the actual shot wasn’t 450yds it was nearer 250-300yds (Max) and you hit it. This opinion was supported by the holdover you gave the shot so in that case, Well done one less Charlie, but it certainly wasn’t 450yds now was it ???

Please post the video.

Im sorry if you found my original post offensive, I didn’t quote your name for a reason, I was just a little annoyed by your Wild exaggerations.

[Crumpy]

1 hour ago, 22cf said:

Crummy, Please post the video up here, it was initially quoted as a 22-250, now it’s a 243Win.

It was initially quoted as 450yds but now its 396m (433yds). You may think I’m being a little pedantic but at these ranges the 17m makes a huge difference when Shooting vermin even in daylight, let alone at night.

It really doesn’t matter what caliber it was either at 450yds because it doesnt make much difference to the holdover in these two caliber,  especially when you’re guessing at night. You’re not going to make an accurate assessment of distance at night on a fox that’s running around like the fox in your video was. 

If you playback the video you will see the shot taker didn’t give the fox 24+ inches of holdover which is what a 450yd shot would require.

My beef with your post wasn’t the fact that you shoot foxes, I shoot them myself, it wasn’t the fact that you shot it at an extended range either. My issue with your post is that as someone that shoots foxes at night with 11x NV and thermal gear I know that there is absolutely no way that fox was at 450yds, the sight picture wasn’t right for a fox at 450yds through a 10x drone. In addition you didn’t give it the requisite hold over for a rifle sighted at 100 or even 200yds and in addition to that you or your Shooting buddy didn’t range the fox to confirm the range/holdover.

Hence you would have taken a speculative 450yd pot shot at a fox, which for me isn’t right.

As it happens the actual shot wasn’t 450yds it was nearer 250-300yds (Max) and you hit it. This opinion was supported by the holdover you gave the shot so in that case, Well done one less Charlie, but it certainly wasn’t 450yds now was it ???

Please post the video.

Im sorry if you found my original post offensive, I didn’t quote your name for a reason, I was just a little annoyed by your Wild exaggerations.

 

[Crumpy]

File too big to post on here, it is available online if anyone wants to see it on PBiR page on Facebook, I’m sorry but your post shows how little you know, where do you keep getting your 24” of drop data from??? I’ve shot 100s of foxes with this set up and am very confident with it, feel free to doubt my numbers, you seem to know my ground well enough to quote distances I have no need to wildly exaggerate, it’s not my thing, just out of interest how far away do you think this target is?

8EB63D90-636D-4FE1-9749-A034AF5BA998.MOV