Wrinkles when forming 20 TAC from 223

[Rule_303]

Having finished my bag of Dakota (Lapua really) 20 TAC cases and not been able to find any new ones, I have recently acquired a form & trim die to turn 223 into 20 TAC.

For my first efforts, I tried some brand new Winchester cases which - even if I take it really carefully - seem to wrinkle the case at the shoulder like this:-

Having plucked up enough courage to actually fire them, 50,000 odd PSI seems to fire-form them nicely though.

 

I have since picked up a bunch of GGG cases (from Cheshire Lad on here) and tried them through the same dies.  Initial forming results are much better.

 

I can only assume that the Winchester brass is really soft and buckles when pushing the shoulder back by 23 thou and out to 30 degrees.

(the difference in length and angle according to what I can find)

 

Has anybody else seen this ?

Is it normal ?

 

Cheers.

[Catch-22]

I'm no expert whatsoever but it looks to me like you're possibly using too much lube on the cases which acts hydrolically and wrinkles the cases. I could be wrong though.

is it just me but does the shoulder of the fire formed CCC case (2nd pic) looks quite weird? 

[Scotch_egg]

I reform .223 to .20 Tac by using the FL die. 

Initially I got similar ripples in the brass. Less lube required and they are spot on now. 

[GT3_richy]

55 minutes ago, Catch-22 said:

is it just me but does the shoulder of the fire formed CCC case (2nd pic) looks quite weird? 

I think thats it just put through the die, not fire formed?

[Nick 53]

When I started reloading I did have a similar problem and it was caused by to much lube 

nick 

[Catch-22]

1 hour ago, GT3_richy said:

I think thats it just put through the die, not fire formed?

Of course, I'd miss understood it to be fireformed, not just formed.

cheers

[Rule_303]

Thanks for looking guys.

I will try less lube - though I'm not slapping great dollops on as it is, and using the same technique for the GGG's which aren't buckling.