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Big Al

6BRA

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3 hours ago, Gandy said:

Certainly looks like a shooter. 

Once the load was developed with the fire formed brass it shot very well at 100yds.

Screen Shot 2017-12-19 at 18.18.19.png

I was narrowly beaten into 2nd place on its first competitive outing , a 600yd benchrest shoot at Diggle earlier in the month. That particular load although very good at 100yds is showing too much vertical at 600yds, my agg for 4 x 5 shot groups was 2.7" and it was all vertical so I need to sort this if the weather ever gives me a chance!

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51 minutes ago, weejohn said:

You should take a wee trip up to Selkirk Alan and use the tunnel range .

Ive been there many times John but Im not going to get rid of the vertical with 100yd testing. 

Looking at the group above you wouldn't think it would show vertical at distance considering its very round and small but all four of my 600yd groups had far more vertical than horizontal in them. The only way Im going to see whats working and what isn't is some 600yd testing - shame there wasn't a longer tunnel ;)

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You must have been very disappointed Al with your 2.7 inch average group at 600yds lmao.how do you plan on sorting the vertical then ?

Out of interest what minimum velocity do you need in the 6mm br to be competitive.

Minimum barrel length as well.

Cheers No I deer

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1 hour ago, No i deer said:

You must have been very disappointed Al with your 2.7 inch average group at 600yds lmao.how do you plan on sorting the vertical then ?

Out of interest what minimum velocity do you need in the 6mm br to be competitive.

Minimum barrel length as well.

Cheers No I deer

As I said earlier, you need to test at longer ranges to see exactly what the load is doing.

Different competitors run 105gr bullets at different speeds depending on the case, Ive heard of some seeing 3400fps. If you can get speed and accuracy then great but generally accuracy and gun handling is king. My 6BRA is running 2975fps, my Dasher was 3050fps, that said it wouldn't bother me what speed I was getting if the load shot sub 2" at 600yds or sub 4" at 1000yds on a regular basis.

Ive seen 2950fps with 105gr Bergers from a 6BR with a 24" barrel but I would rather have 28-30" to get there easier.

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I definitely gotta try the 6mm br when my 6.5x47 barrel is worn out.it sounds great ūüĎć.

Nice group by the way.

Can you show rifle and tell us it' stats ūüĎć

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4 hours ago, No i deer said:

Out of interest what minimum velocity do you need in the 6mm br to be competitive.

 

I shot a 1.467" group in that match with the plain Jane 6BR giving the 107gn SMK at 2,690 fps with my running-in load and new brass. A very high MV + high-BC bullet combination reduces the effect of wind changes during the string, but not by as much as people might imagine. Being able to shoot very fast indeed with 100.000% precision has a greater effect - something I've never mastered.

Vertical is a 'group killer' though and it is always instructive to be in the butts and see how much variation there is between competitors in this respect. 

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So big Al was 2nd behind you that day Laurie ūüŹÜ

Does anybody shoot sub 4 inches at 1000yds regularly then.i look at the results on here and it's not regular from results ive seen

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Slight changes in the conditions can surely cause verticle as it can windage.ive not witnessed this type of shooting though it does interest me.being in the lap of the gods is the biggest variable.

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Our (UKBRA) best group this year at 1000 yds was Big Al's 2.77 incher (Heavy Gun) followed by Ian Dixon's 3.67in. (Light Gun).

There have been quite a few in the 'fours' though.

 

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Hi I read with interest about MV and powder and Bullets, just out of curiosity is there a gun weight limit with 6br shooting? And does the weight dictates what distance you can shoot at.

 Cheers nick 

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1 hour ago, Nick 53 said:

Hi I read with interest about MV and powder and Bullets, just out of curiosity is there a gun weight limit with 6br shooting? And does the weight dictates what distance you can shoot at.

 Cheers nick 

Why do you think there is a weight limit for 6BR?   It is just a calibre and has no bearing on weight limits at all.   Plus, gun weight also have no bearing on distance you want to shoot at.

I use my 6BR in Heavy Gun for UKBRA comps and it weighs about 55lbs.   I can also use the same action/barrel on a Tooley MBR benchrest/f class type of stock and the weight comes in about 20lbs or thereabouts.    So the calibre has nothing to do with which type of competition I want to use it on.      I have used both gun total weight options between 100yds and 1000yds.   

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Hi I was led to believe that Benchrest shooting had weight limits again possible idle fertiliser info 

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Al was talking on the lines of having a rifle that shoots sub 2 inches at 600yds and sub 4 inches at 1000yds.that sounds like a carlsberg rifle.I think you'll need absalute perfection for that but if you don't try you won't find out.I will be looking forward to seeing these result !!!!!!

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Nick, most competitions will impose rig weight limits,often in more tham one weight class eg in Bench Rest 1000y there is Light Gun ,and Heavy gun. 

    6BR is a cartridge,quite popular in mid range,but also used in  1000y. There are only very small ballistic differences  with rifle  weight (eg a longer barrel might add some  more  fps to muzzle velocity;but essentially the ballistics derive from the cartridge loading.) A heavy rested rifle  will generally be more accurate-heavier barrel especially,and a bit more resistant to barrel heat up/bullet dispersion-just as with a sporter barrel v a varmint barrel....when fully rested, the heavier the rifle,the less recoil,and the easier to  get off shots fast-like 5 in 20 seconds-which gives a better chance of avoiding wind changes...(and the mild recoil,and exceptional precision/accuracy potential  of the  6BR helps too).

 The 'range'-effective/accurate range -is not directly a function of rifle weight,but  the rifle is indirectly more/less effectively deployed,as above...range is effectively determined ballistically by the cartridge loading (and rifle barrel length)...a "Heavy"  gun  6BR won't have more range per se than a 'Light' gun 6BR,or a varminter. Both shoot at 1000y for example in 1000y BR comps-though in separate classes-under some rules  ( US eg) the Heavies shoot 10 shots strings,the Lights shoot 5,so  bear in mind if comparing the groups aggregates-apples to apples!

    I'm sure someone will give accurate current weight limits for BR and other disciplines,like F (open) class etc. Generally,the barrel gets the  big share....that's the major factor in where bullets end up for a given cartridge.

gbal

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, No i deer said:

Al was talking on the lines of having a rifle that shoots sub 2 inches at 600yds and sub 4 inches at 1000yds.that sounds like a carlsberg rifle.I think you'll need absalute perfection for that but if you don't try you won't find out.I will be looking forward to seeing these result !!!!!!

These are far from unobtainable groups, Ive already build a couple of different rifles that have shot groups of 2.778" at 1000yds and 1.058" at 600yds, both UKBRA Heavy Gun records. Quite often we see groups that apart from one shot could have been considerably smaller so with Gods help who knows where we will get to. 

Diggle is a challenging range most of the time but when Mother Nature gives us a break there are rifles out there in the hands of more than a few of us that I feel could break existing records by a considerable margin, at the minute there are a few of us trying hard! :)

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1 hour ago, Nick 53 said:

Hi I was led to believe that Benchrest shooting had weight limits again possible idle fertiliser info 

There are weight limits Nick, up to 17lb 'all in' is a light gun, everything over that is a heavy gun. The only limit I believe with Heavy Gun is that the shooter must be able to lift the rifle onto the bench themselves.

There are no caliber related restrictions in terms of the weight classes you can have a heavy recoiling LG or a 6BR in HG that recoils less than an inch.

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That' certainly some amazing groups.a tad over 1 inch at 600yds is ridiculous really.almost unbelievable.

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These classifications apply to mid/long-range BR only. There is a third type/class we don't see here for 'rail guns', ie return to battery types which only bear a passing resemblance to a conventional rifle.

For 100/200 yard BR (100 only in the UK, there not being any suitable 200 yard ranges in use to date), a completely different and much more restrictive set of equipment rules apply, and then it depends which of the US BR governing bodies' rules are used. I think we (UKBRA) use IBS rules, but mole-e30 or The Gun Pimp can quote chapter and verse here. In this case, the three classes are Light and Heavy Varmint (as per US / international rules) and then there is a home-grown sporter class as an entry class for non PPC BR custom rifle owners. As in L-R BR competitors aren't restricted to any one cartridge or limited range of cartridges, but the 6PPC in its many variants is almost universally used in the two 'Varmint' categories as nobody has devised a 'better mousetrap' yet.

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2 hours ago, No i deer said:

That' certainly some amazing groups.a tad over 1 inch at 600yds is ridiculous really.almost unbelievable.

Yes it is - and what makes it more ridiculous is the fact that this is not the result of someone firing dozens of groups over an afternoon's plinking - you set up, sit down and you have precisely five minutes to shoot your group.

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3 hours ago, Big Al said:

 The only limit I believe with Heavy Gun is that the shooter must be able to lift the rifle onto the bench themselves.

 

There is no such requirement actually - if there was, little Emily wouldn't be competing with her heavy gun

DSC_2492.jpg

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10 minutes ago, The Gun Pimp said:

There is no such requirement actually - if there was, little Emily wouldn't be competing with her heavy gun

DSC_2492.jpg

Thanks for the clarification Vince, that opens the door then for Big Dog 2 if I can bring my own lackies ;)

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