.22 ammo and awkward snakes

[Ralpharama]

I have finally got my FAC and have bought a CZ455 with varmint barrel and laminated thumb hole stock to use in my clubs 25 & 50m ranges. The RFD who sold it me supplied me with a'Bore Snake' to clean it. Unfortunately the weight appears too light to pull the guide string though the barrel. In desperation I tried from the other end , but that didn't work either. Any ideas? The RFD that sold me my other gun, said that pull throughs were the work of satan and shouldn't be used as they can damage the crown of the barrel.

I bought some ammo at the second dealers as the first didn't have any non-expanding.

I tried a box of CCL CB 22 long (29gr 710 FPS £13.94/100). This was useless on the 50m range and you could see the bullet through the scope as it only just made the bottom of the paper, some six inches below the actual target. At 25m it was equally useless. I 

I set the sight up with Fereral Champion (40gr 1240 FPS £3.50/50) which was OK at 25 metres, but not the groupings I wanted.

I then tried the Lapua SK Standard Plus (40gr 1066FPS £5.40/50) which gave the best groupings but the box said it was sub-sonic. The rounds were very greasy and clearly had some coating.

I have only the CCL  left now wasting space on my limited ammo allowance (600). I tend to shoot a lot of .22 rounds and would like to find a reasonably accurate and affordable round - any recommendations?

Thanks

 

 

[les]

Why would sub sonic ammunition be a problem?

The speed of sound is 1125 ft/s, so anything below this is sub-sonic. SK Standard Plus is probably the best general purpose .22 LR ammunition available in the UK. It is as accurate as Eley Match, but at half the price.

Yes, it's greasy, but every round of ammunition has some kind of coating on it - usually wax - and the SK doesn't leave any difficult to remove deposits in the barrel.

Will you be using your rifle for hunting, or just for target shooting?

[banus02]

good morning ,eley match ammo will get you better groups and if you can buy two boxs of 50 if your rifle likes them buy a brick of 500 as its a bit cheaper,i use velocitor made by cci these are also very good , could let you have a box or two to try.the bore snake should be .22 caliber to be of any use but to be honest you will only need to wipe down the metal work to keep your .22 in good condition.leave the rifling alone for a few thousand rounds.

[rhhudson]

Personally I would throw the boresnake back at the RFD.

 

There is no need to clean a 22lr at all but if you really feel the need too after maybe 500shots then I would use a push through rod. 

 

With regards to ammo you don't say if you are using a moderator or not, 

So there is 2 types of bullets, subsonic and hv (high velocity) 

If you are using a moderator and want to take quiet shots then you need the subsonic ammo, a moderator will lessen the sound of hv ammo but not that much. 

The best thing to do is buy a box of each brand and try them to see which your gun likes best. which is the most accurate in your rifle then once you have done that you can but a bulk box of normally 500 to cut down on costs.

I shoot with a moderator and use subsonic ammo and my gun likes the RWS the best. 

 

If you add your location to your profile then people can see where about you are in the country and help you out. 

 

Thanks

Rhhudson

[ezmobile]

Ralpharama. I too have a very similar CZ to yours and have found the easiest way to use the boresnake is to remove the bolt and hold the barrel, pointing down, as vertical as possible, then feed the snake in carefully until it drops out the muzzle. Simples.

Re: Ammo. I often use CCI "Quiet" subs for target practice out to 50 yd. These are considered really slow, at around 710 fps, but they shoot very well, with nice tight groups. And they are "really" good at 25 yds. I also use CCI Minimags (@ 1235 fps)which are good out to 100 yds+, so I can't see why your rounds seem to be such a problem. 

Maybe I've missed something here, but you said something about your bullets only just making the bottom of the paper target? Can't you adjust the elevation reticle on your scope to compensate for it? Like I've said, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but there seems to be something amiss here.  With the rather slow CCI Quiet's in my CZ with its Optisan Taipan scope, the difference in my scope's  elevation between 25 yards & 50 yards is only around 2.5 MOA.

[cooter]

It could be that as the rifle is new it still requires rounds through it to help it bed in.

The barrel normally needs lining with lead from the bullets before it really settles down.

[gbal]

Ralph,some good advice given-bore snake is better loose-if not best lost altogether-think what happens if the pull  string breaks/snake is stuck in the bore-serious problem-you don't need to clen a 22rf anyhow-and def not within a shooting session-so a full length rod is preferable/safer-if you must!

    Re ammo-you tend to get what you pay for-SK is currently well thought of,and Lapua/Eley/RWS grades are up there in most rifles-cost increasing,of course.But ammo is  relativelycheap-don't compromise accuracy.

  Your problem with the CCI is that it is not the proper ammo-note it is 22Long,not Long Rifle-and you should not have been sold it.....22rf  has several chamberings-22rf short (often 29g too ) is another...while they may chamber in a 22rfLR chamber and fire 'safely' they will not shoot well. 

The CCI 29gL(ong) CB round  has only 710 fps at muzzle which is really low( for 22rf LR ammo)so of course will shoot quite differntly at 50y (10 inches high if zeroed at 100y)-contrast to normal 22rf Long Rifle loads standard velocity 40g Eley target ammo MV is 1085,and  only 3.6""high at 50 for 100 zero 40g -that's a pretty big trajectory difference-hence 6"or so,low at 50 in comparison to standard velocity (with same sight setting).

You have the wrong ammo for a 22rf LR (long rifle) chambered rifle. Do not use anything  that is not LR (whether sub sonic,standard,Match,Hi velocity)-most is 38-40 g as a quick guide.

22long (cf 29 gr,and loaded CCI and Winchester-only three loadings) is close to deserved obsolescence,and now serves no useful purpose.If noise is an issue-not in target-a moderator serves.

Much cheaper-and almost all US ammo-is 'plinking grade'-minute of tin can.It might be accepable as such,but will disappoint as target ammo-occasionally a rifle will be oK ith it,but very much rarer is a decent 22rf that is not clearly better with one of the above makes of target ammo.Google '22rf'' ammo tests-it will confirm the league positions pretty much as stated. If you want the Midas touch,get Lapua (or Eley,as convenient) target grade  ammo.

Get a box each of Eley/SK-lapua/RWS and see what your rifle likes.Don't try everything-not much will be as good as at least one of those (they all do various 'grades',-essentially quality control,each upgrade usually being worth a point or two on competition targets-with corresponding  rising price-the most expensive may not be best in your rifle -though only you can judge cost/performance-but not much point in shooting ammo that misses a bit more-and it does not take much to drop points on match targets-to save a few pounds/100.

There is excellent target 22rf ammo-when you find yours,get a 500 brick (given your 600 allowance).

gbal

gbal

  

[Andrew]

I remember back several decades when the inventor of the "Bore Snake" used to sell them from little booths he would set up at gun shows. At the time I bought a 22 caliber snake and I've had it every since. They are pretty much harmless when used correctly. That said.....

NEVER clean a 22LR if you want to retain accuracy. I clean the action and chamber scrupulously, but leave the bore alone.  When I do clean mine it is because I've gotten dust or debris in the muzzle. Then it's only a scant drop of oil on a patch, followed by dry patches. Done. No change in zero. No problems. I have maybe 2 dozen 22LR weapons and all get the same treatment.~Andrew

[ezmobile]

4 hours ago, ezmobile said:

Ralpharama. I too have a very similar CZ to yours and have found the easiest way to use the boresnake is to remove the bolt and hold the barrel, pointing down, as vertical as possible, then feed the snake in carefully until it drops out the muzzle. Simples.

Re: Ammo. I often use CCI "Quiet" subs for target practice out to 50 yd. These are considered really slow, at around 710 fps, but they shoot very well, with nice tight groups. And they are "really" good at 25 yds. I also use CCI Minimags (@ 1235 fps)which are good out to 100 yds+, so I can't see why your rounds seem to be such a problem. 

Maybe I've missed something here, but you said something about your bullets only just making the bottom of the paper target? Can't you adjust the elevation reticle on your scope to compensate for it? Like I've said, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but there seems to be something amiss here.  With the rather slow CCI Quiet's in my CZ with its Optisan Taipan scope, the difference in my scope's  elevation between 25 yards & 50 yards is only around 2.5 MOA.

Yep, I thought I'd missed something. It was the .22 "Long" which threw me! - Also, go easy on the cleaning with a Snake.

[Ralpharama]

On 23/11/2017 at 10:51 AM, les said:

Why would sub sonic ammunition be a problem?

The speed of sound is 1125 ft/s, so anything below this is sub-sonic. SK Standard Plus is probably the best general purpose .22 LR ammunition available in the UK. It is as accurate as Eley Match, but at half the price.

Yes, it's greasy, but every round of ammunition has some kind of coating on it - usually wax - and the SK doesn't leave any difficult to remove deposits in the barrel.

Will you be using your rifle for hunting, or just for target shooting?

Just target shooting, mainly 25/50 metres indoors

[gbal]

25-50 metre indoor target shooting makes an easy choice:

Eley, and Lapua do a range of target 22rf ammo-up to the olympic winning stuff.Try a box of their mid range target stuff,and the next one up....you should have ammo  that ispretty good,and unlikely you'll shoot enough to really cost a lot more-but it'll be worth it,if you want your best result.Remember the rifle is not a Bleiker @ £3000 +,of course.

[Ralpharama]

Thanks so much for all your input. I have decided to give up on the bore-snake - I have been told it could damage the crown of the barrel, so the fact it won't slide into the barrel maybe a positive. I did however buy a rod and some brushes et al for it, but judging by the comments on here I best not use them too often.

I'm pretty pissed off that the RFD sold me that 22 long ammo as it's clearly the wrong stuff for my gun and I told him exactly what gun I have and asked for his input. He told me CCI mini-mag was no good, but the next (more local) RFD said mini-mag was great and to try some, so I have a box. I also have two different boxes of RWS to try - Club and Z Lang. I will find out tomorrow night which work best. I did want some Eley to try, but he was out of stock

[Ralpharama]

29 minutes ago, gbal said:

25-50 metre indoor target shooting makes an easy choice:

Eley, and Lapua do a range of target 22rf ammo-up to the olympic winning stuff.Try a box of their mid range target stuff,and the next one up....you should have ammo  that ispretty good,and unlikely you'll shoot enough to really cost a lot more-but it'll be worth it,if you want your best result.Remember the rifle is not a Bleiker @ £3000 +,of course.

Thanks. No it's only a CZ - I spent the real money on the .308 

[Drivinfish]

I personally can not use rws in my rifle as it won’t shoot consistently through my rifle 

[gbal]

Ralph,no slight at all intended-just don't expect olympic near perfection.Czs can shoot very well. Feed it  good ammo-the top options have been covered,

.  Same for the 308-a factory Rem  308 can shoot 1/2 moa at 1000y sometimes,and a custom Shehane might shoot moa sometimes-but usually it's better....

enjoy within the reasonable envelope of what ever rifle (and ammo) you shoot   :-)

g

 

 

[Ralpharama]

Appreciate all the feedback. I have bought hundred weights of .22 RF ammo and am getting to realise that I really need to make my own mind up what works with my gun. SK Standard Plus is OK. I think currently my fave is probably Eley Club. I will probably try some higher spec Eley rounds at some point. Someone gave me ten rounds of Blazer the other day and the CZ seemed to like that. Got persuaded to take a 100 mini mag by an RFD which was disappointing and some 29gr RWS which has proved to struggle to get to the other end of the 50 metre range. 

[gbal]

Right,as advised. Don't mess about with other makes if Eley is good,but try a grade up-at some point the rifle will be the limiter,as much as the ammo.Individual rifles can perform OK with otherewise mediocre ammo,but the good stuff (like up grade Eley) tends to do well in most. Try other than Eley/Lapua,if you must,but be prepared for disapointment more often than not.

   There really is a lot of 22rf-but to differnt quality....why not check on some overall review,and look what comes out at the top most often and is never out of the top spots...oh,that would be Eley and Lapua!  

Google. '22 lr rifke ammo testing" .Remember RFD's may 'push' the brands they stock-best resusted,unless you want to save a £ or two,and can accept corresponding poorer performance. Ditto 'High Velocity" etc and any  low velocity ammo for target shooting.40G about 1180 fps is the sweet spot-with good quality control by.....well,you know now from your own shooting...get plenty and enjoy...

gbal