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justin credible

6mm calibre choice

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I am about to rebarrel one of my rifles for solely to use as a night time fox bashing tool. 

I am not bothered about barrel life but want to be able to launch an 87gr bullet at the quickest speed possible BUT still want to be able to see the show.  I'm not sure if this would be possible with a 6/284

Could I have some suggestions on which 6mm would fit the bill please. 

Cheers

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No foxes here but given it's under light, you'd be shooting at maybe 250yds max?

If that's the case, a 6BR would be fine. You'd be talking a very heavy 6-284 if you wanted to spot impacts.

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I dont have any experience with anything biggerthan a 6x47 lapua but it will work great!

if you go 6x284 you may well have to build a heavier rifle to follow impacts, just depends on youre type of shoting wether you carry the rifle much or if its solely static shooting. 

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9 hours ago, justin credible said:

I am about to rebarrel one of my rifles for solely to use as a night time fox bashing tool. 

I am not bothered about barrel life but want to be able to launch an 87gr bullet at the quickest speed possible BUT still want to be able to see the show.  I'm not sure if this would be possible with a 6/284

Could I have some suggestions on which 6mm would fit the bill please. 

Cheers

I can see why you want to be able to spot your strikes, I feel the same. As such I use a .224 cal and a lot less powder and I can then see the hits, after all its a fox in the dark not a red stag on a hill 350yds away. :)

Bullets like 55gr vmax or SBK are devastating on Charlie way out to distances I wouldn't consider in the dark, if you launch them from a suitable case they will have at least as good ballistics over night time fox shooting ranges than your planned case.

Something like a 22BR or 22/250 is plenty or if you want the next level up 22/243, 22 Middlestead or 22x47 - will all smash your foxes just as well and give you a much better chance of seeing the hits.

Of course you might just have a 6x284 itch that needs scratching in which case get one ;)

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Largely agree with Al's points,though a 243 with light bullets is an easy "Middlestaead" these days.

"See splash/hit in the dark at 100-250y (or so) AND have maximum velocity with an 87g 6mm is getting into contradictory desiderata territory.More puf means more muzzle (scope) jump etc. A 6PPC or 6BR would  edge all the others for precision,with less recoil effects.

   But 'solely' for night fox,again take Al's point-that means limited clear visibility,and distance.No need  for whizzers- the standard 224 cfs will be very competent-at the fox end,and much more 'sight' compatible at the shooter end (the 17 rem excels at the shooter end,might be marginal at fox end extremes).

  222 rem is a superb fox cartridge,with a suitable bullet-including the older soft point designs. It won't really stretch beyond 300y-effectively-but will night vision/you etc? 

223  likewise.Simply no  need for more,and an extensive successful track record-for the stated useage,will shoot considerably heavier bullets than 222 (but why?)

  A bold shooter who simply had to have a 6mm for your purposes might look at the wildcat 6x45 (223 necked up)...a bit more clout (not needed),shoots heavier bullets (as requested) RCBS dies,easy brass and effective....(80g@2780)....

6-284 class is simply OTT,for purpose-on both criteria- you won't see much...plenty of others,as ever...factor in NV compatibility/scope too-I would imagine..

. Just for perspective,about as fast as a 6mm will go  is the Lazzeroni Spitfire...85@3618....unhotted...not that I'd recommend it here......    :-)

gbal

 

 

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Hi Justin, I have a 6mmAI reamer ;) It'll drive an 87vmax as quick as you'd want :)

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All these 'exotic' chamberings are fine and dandy but do nothing a .243 won't for your intended purpose. Why make life difficult? Brass, loaded rounds readily available and with a 87gn Vmax is ideal for your purpose. Loaded to sensible pressure/velocity a .243 will easily see 2000 rounds with  fox shooting accuracy.

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What I will add is look at the ballistics between the light weight 55/58 grain 6mm offerings again the 87gr v-max.

 

Even with the extra speed the 87gr is a winner. 

 

The .243 isn’t sexy but does the job. I love mine for lamping/NV work. Saying that my favourite round is the 6mmbr because of the low recoil. I believe it punches above its size.

 

As such if I was going custom I would try the 6mm Creedmoor or 6-6.5X47 sometimes know at the 6mm HOT. I would say they both sit nicely between the 6mmbr and .243

 

what I do when looking at a new calibres is pick the bullet I want to use and have a play with a ballistic calculator changing the velocity. I can work out of the extra powder and recoil is really going to gain me a significant advantage or not. But that’s only something you can decide at the end of the day.

 

 

 

 

 

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Cheers Guys

I currently use a 22BR with a 52gr bullet, so I know the ballistics and end results;)

Never having used a 6-284 I wasn't aware of whether you could see the show. From comments above it appears that this is unlikely.

I wanted to have a 6mm that would be 'deer legal' when the need arose, as both my .308's are 18pound ftr rifles and not something that I would wish to carry around.

I am aware that the 6br has hardly any recoil but really wanted something that could launch an 87gr bullet at the max velocity possible whilst still being able to see the show.

Dave, did you find that to be possible with your 6mmAI?

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1 hour ago, justin credible said:

Cheers Guys

I currently use a 22BR with a 52gr bullet, so I know the ballistics and end results;)

Never having used a 6-284 I wasn't aware of whether you could see the show. From comments above it appears that this is unlikely.

I wanted to have a 6mm that would be 'deer legal' when the need arose, as both my .308's are 18pound ftr rifles and not something that I would wish to carry around.

I am aware that the 6br has hardly any recoil but really wanted something that could launch an 87gr bullet at the max velocity possible whilst still being able to see the show.

Dave, did you find that to be possible with your 6mmAI?

Hi Justin, yes as with the lighter bullets recoil is not a problem and I had a varmint profile on the gun. Others may find they'd loose the target but you and me alike are used to handling F class rigs shooting heavy bullets at max speed. 

I can happily see my impacts with my .308 shooting 215 hybrids @ 2800 fps off a bipod. 

Cheers

Dave. 

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Justin,

i use a 6/284 with either 95g Patitions at over 3500fps of the 87g Hunting VLD's at over 3600fps with a 25" barrel  in a lightweight ETac, and a WT1 75-3, without being graphic, the thermal see's all, most shots taken from sticks.

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5 hours ago, MJR said:

All these 'exotic' chamberings are fine and dandy but do nothing a .243 won't for your intended purpose. Why make life difficult? Brass, loaded rounds readily available and with a 87gn Vmax is ideal for your purpose. Loaded to sensible pressure/velocity a .243 will easily see 2000 rounds with  fox shooting accuracy.

+1 

http://www.6mmbr.com/243win.html

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Justin,

.            NOw that your 'solely for use as a night time fox tool' has upped considerably to an 'occasional' deer rifle....(species?),you wanting an 6mm 87 g bullet makes more sense.... AS MJR and Moorlander correctly say,that's about what the 243 was meant for,and has done rather well ( a bit light though for big red deer-any 6mm will be).

   No need for  more-the 6mm Remington will give an extra 50 fps,and an AI version of either will add maybe 100+ fps....will make the  cartridges clerly deer legal,but not really needed (if you like complexity etc,by all means). The 243-6mmRem- are quite. Versatile,as I said-screamers with 55-58 g bullets,and capable of handling up to 100g when a bit more energy needed.

   Two in one cartridges can mean a small compromise (sometimes a very big one!) but these two might fit your requirements fine-as they traditionally and successfully have done,used sensibly.

I've found the recoil on 243 (three very different rifles,two light caary stalkers) just about allows some strike view (if that's what 'show' means),especially with a fairly heavy moderator (North Star eg) even with fairly high mag-say 12x,maybemore-but I'd not expect much at night-light,not recoil per se! 

 Recoil and sight disruption is way less than 308 (of comparable weight)-as the  Relative Recoil Factors below suggest:

204 Ruger .6

223 Rem. .8

243 Win 1.25

6mmRem 1.40

260Rem/CM  1.73

308Win  1.95

Not to complicate,but I've recently been using the even older 250-3000 (fps with 87g) ,in a 61/2 lb Savage 99 rifle, recoil factor 1.27-so same as 243 (87@ 3200) but I load a tad lighter,and it's very shootable-but you won't find many now-243 wiped them out decades ago.I'd put the 243 on the limit if good 'show' view is  wanted-and I doubt that you'll get it in the dark-from the little I've seen of night vision..two big eyes then nothing....but maybe the latest expensive thermals are better.

    Less compromising might be two used rifles-a fox cartridge and a stalking one-you won't go far wrong with a good used Sako in either category,and meet both shooting needs rather better.Just a thought-been there,tried it otherwise, but two correct tool(s) win every time.

gbal

 

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Thank you everyone for your input, and offers of reamers😁

Yes George, 'see the show' was indeed reference to the bullet strike.....not some West End musical. 

The 6mmai and the 284 were going to be a toss of the coin however a problem arose. Having shot single shot rifles for ages now I forgot that the donor action is a short action fed by an AI mag. So I guess this now narrows it down to a 243AI. 

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Just (in) check -the 243 (necked 308) is often classed as a medium action (not a  short  action ,as in 223 etc).....but if it (Ackley-ed) does fit,then a good choice-I'd still try a similar weight 243 just to check you can see the show ("Cats" eyes in the dark?) but you need the extra energy for medium deer-especially if the barrel is sub 24".

  What is the donor rifle rifle action currently shooting-that will indicate action size.

Hope it works out for you- the 243 is a fine,honest cartridge,no fuss,no vices ( a classic,not a fad).

gbal

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Not considered the 6xc ?

Stupidly accurate and good quality brass off the shelf. 

No fireforming, a good long neck, and no mag feeding problems.

Its case belies its power.

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2 hours ago, baldie said:

Not considered the 6xc ?

Stupidly accurate and good quality brass off the shelf. 

No fireforming, a good long neck, and no mag feeding problems.

Its case belies its power.

In what way is it better than a .243w? genuine question.

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It has a better shoulder angle, and a longer neck. Both improve accuracy over the tired old .308 based design of the .243.

Almost parallel case, instead of tapered, means better mag feeding.

The 6Xc was designed to shoot up to 115 grain bullets, and handles anything from 90's upwards on the standard reamer and its throat.

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6XC brass and ammunition are available, although a little pricey.

https://www.norma.cc/us/Products/Hunting/?SelectedCaliber=6XC&SelectedBulletType=all&SelectedWildType=all&productBtn=Search

I like it a lot, although I suspect if my rifle was chambered in 243 Win and 1:8 twist that the performance would be very similar. I would suggest that the 6XC was the 243 Win done right.

Regards

JCS

 

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13 hours ago, baldie said:

It has a better shoulder angle, and a longer neck. Both improve accuracy over the tired old .308 based design of the .243.

Almost parallel case, instead of tapered, means better mag feeding.

The 6Xc was designed to shoot up to 115 grain bullets, and handles anything from 90's upwards on the standard reamer and its throat.

Thanks.

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