6ppc usa

[25dynod]

having a problem with my 6mm ppc USA cases. when i either full size them or run them through the body die i get a ridge of brass about 1/8" from the web. the cases have been fired in my sako 75 varmint and have no problems with bolt lift or flattened primers. cases are lapua 220 russian and the necks have been reduced to 0.268" they fit into the rifle ok but i am worried that the ridge will be a weak spot on the case. cases are 4 times fired. has anybody ever had this problem. dies are new and the body die is redding and the f/l bushing die is wilson. this is not the usual mark left by a f/l die but an actual  ridge which can be felt with the nail. it's not there if i neck size only.

i meant to say that the ridge can be moved up or down depending how i set the ram. if i have a lot of cam over i can move it to about 1/32" from the web.

any help would be appreciated.

[gbal]

Hmmmm...does this ring appear after (resizing) brass the first time?

   The 220 Russian will have to be necked up etc-presumably the cartridges so loaded are ok on first firing?

The Sako 6PPC USA is  SAAMI registered -by Sako,for it's factory rifles(most 'match'PPCs are essentially wildcats-and can differ a tad-esp in neck. Sako brass marked 6PPCUSA should chamber perfectly in a Sako 75 marked Sako 6PPC USA.

 Some (early?) Sako ^PPC USA brass could be a tad oversize-mainly in the neck,and the Norma brass wasn't much used-a tad softer,considering pressures match rifles tended to run. But this is unlikely to be the issue-but are your dies etc 6PPC Sako USA marked? Unlikely to be the cause of the ring,but occasionally tolerances are just not quite right for a particular Sako rifle (or PPC Ruger). I haven't had the issue in my 75 using 220 Russian based brass.

Accurate Shooter mentions this,but no detail-other shooters here should be able to help diagnose/cure

 The ring happens in other cartridges too,so a resizing issue probably.

gbal

 

[onehole]

This is being caused by something pushing/contacting in an upwards direction and not from the downstroke? Have a look at what is actually contacting this area of the brass in your dies/shellholder etc etc......?

[25dynod]

gbal, the f/l die that is leaving the mark which i purchased from brownells was advertised as a 6mm ppc usa die but the writing on the die and box says "match."  i have sent wilson a mail asking them to clarify if they are the same or have i been given the wrong die. wilson and brownell part numbers are the same. it is a bit confusing as i am sure there are differences between the ppc match and the ppc usa. but are they enough to cause this problem.

[Alycidon]

Personally I pretty well always neck size only my  Lapua 6 PPC USA brass.

To me it looks like the FL die is incorrect, I use the Redding 3 die Comp die set if ever I need to resize fully, they were supplied by the rifle builder so I suppose it might be possible that he has put the chamber reamer into the die to take out any issues.  I did buy a used Wilson FL set but my cases would not fit the die at all.

If you want to send me a couple of fired cases I will put them through my Redding FL die if you feel it might help.  One other thing in passing,  the primers look to be well into the pocket, far more so than mine which are flush with the case.  Not sure if thats good or not, I have never had an issue with pierced primers and you are not saying you are having a miss fire issue.

A

[Vermincinerator]

I have seen this before, i suggest you have a chamber a little on the large side, this causes extra expansion of the web area above the extractor groove which is not noticeable after shooting unless closely inspected. When you FL size, this web area is not sized by the die because of the radius of the die mouth but the body of the case immediately before the web area is, this creates the visible ridge between the web area and the case body you show in your photos, the reason you can move the ridge when adjusting the die to cam over is that you are forcing a little more of the case into the die. To prove what i am saying smoke the web area of the case or mark it with a Sharpy before sizing and watch where the die makes heavy contact.

Ian. 

[Danpd]

As Ian says, Sloppy factory chamber on large side of allowable tolerance, and brass on the small side. Nothing wrong or to be worried about just shoot them.

[gbal]

25,I hope  Wilson can clarify...at least  around a dozen years ago,issues were asked about the "6PPC"-

Try Benchrest Central "6PPC and/versus 6PPCUSA ("the 6PPCUSA has a larger diameter in the web area (though overall capacity is down  more than a grain on the Lapua 220 Russian-which was the brass of near universal choice to be necked up/turned for the non standardised 6pPPC 'match' ie Bench Rest rifles which were essentially custom wildcats,though Dave Kiff had a reamer much used...neck differend quite a bit,262 but also 263 etc....)..and /or..

6BR site "The Sako 6PPCUSA is slightly larger,and will not fit in many 'match' chambers(ie custom reamer BRmatch rifles,as above). Soft Norma PPC brass wasn't favoured because it would not take the pressures of ccompetition oads so well-I think it was marked 6PPC USA too)

.  SAko were contracted to supply 6PPC brass,but supply was irregular at first,and P/P asked Sako to headstamp (USA) to distinguish their so marked brass -as it might /would not chamber in 'custon rifles'-and def not the tight neck ones!

Overwhelmingly,BR PPCshooters continued to use Lapua made 220 Russian brass necked up (or as 22PPC) and prepped etc to fit their particular custom chambers.

 

Aly-I haven't come across Lapua 6PPC USA  headstamped brass (still using a fair supply of the Lapua 220 Russian necked up,and in a 22PPC Ruger chamber-the Lapua necked up 6PPC necked up seems ok in a Sako 75 (6PPCUSA).Using Wilson dies( several,6 and 22 PPC),but there were minor differences with the 22 neck-though not a disadvantage.

   Most of this is consistent with the thread post so far,but I'd prefer 'different' chamberings/brass to 'sloppy' per se,though it comes to similar symptoms,and of course even with SAAMI there have to be manufacturing tolerances,so add all this in,and it's not altogether surprising that (individual) rifles may present (minor?) issues.

  As a 'match' custom chambering,the 6PPC remains unchallenged for 100/200 precision,though Ruger and Sako discontinued factory rifles years ago,and very few others were ever around.Shame-even in factory guise,a very  fine cartridge for the accuracy afficionado .

 

For the varminter-does .1 moa really matter out to 300y+ ,where the PPC runs out af puff....and the 6BR takes over.Don't even ask about the early 'wildcat chamber' (Remington spec,but no factory brass without much work...) that was the "6BR Rem"in its early life-then  'chamber throat modified' to 6BR Norma CIP specs,and now a  great cartridge,fully domesticatted, with superb  Norma factory ammo too.(or add a Dasher of velocity,if you simply must).    :-)

gbal

    

 

 

[Laurie]

1 hour ago, Danpd said:

As Ian says, Sloppy factory chamber on large side of allowable tolerance, and brass on the small side. Nothing wrong or to be worried about just shoot them.

 

Absolutely .... it's what Dan says. Ahh... forum members who've obviously never owned and handloaded for 303, 7X57, 6.5X55, 8X57 etc military rifles, and especially some 7.5X55mm M1911 Swiss Schmidts! 

[25dynod]

just been on to L.E.Wilson and seemingly the 6ppc usa is the same as the 6ppc match and the die i needed was the 6ppc sako which is called the 6ppc factory. clear as mud i would say.

USA & Match are the same ; and are based off of the Pindell Print. This is the die that you have, and this is not for SAKO.

The Factory is based off of the SAKO Factory Print, and that is the FLD-6PPCF Part number which you do not have. .

 

 

 

the good news is the lady i spoke to at their factory has asked me to send the die + a few fired cases and they will hone the die out to suit the cases free of charge. they will also reimburse shipping and handling.

now thats what i call a first class service.

 

 

 

[gbal]

25 Dynod,glad you have  a resolution/solution -as I suggested,there are  "6PPC's that are not quite clones,and sometimes won't interchange happily...I think saying the "USA" is same as "match' is likely to add to the confusion-as 'Match' really has no official status,but that's another puzzler for someone else.( Official Bench Rest matches are near 100% shot with essentially wildcat 6PPC custom chambered rifles,though some will have used the 'same' chamber reamer).

 Great that Wilson will sort you out,and free-you should not be disappointed with the performance-though it does vary with rifle a bit-note,Wilsons willbe neck sizing,I think,so eventually you may need a FL-though I can't ever remember having to FL any of my three PPCs (custom Kelby 6PPC 262 neck;;Sako 6 PPCUSA,and Ruger 22PPC).

     Shoot great,1/2 inch usually indicates shooter error(or poor ammo)-Berger 68g -or niche custom makers-were the precision choice...but any lighter 6mm (sub 95g) worth a try.

Nothing 'sloppy' at all about a properly fettled PPC rig.Enjoy.

gbal

[25dynod]

thanks gbal, i shot this rifle at diggle in september and apart from shooter error,  i shot the practice target instead of the actual and only put one hole in the target therefore getting 4 penalties. my first time shooting 100yd benchrest for a couple of years. apart from that i was extremely happy with the result of the other 4 targets. so the rifle does shoot well but the shooter is not so good. lol. hopefully all will be good when the die has been returned. i do use a redding neck bushing die but was informed that it would be better if i f/l resized the cases.