Home Secretary to consult on new laws on offensive weapons

[Xtrema]

Heads up.

The government are launching a new consultation. Part of which is to move 50 cal and "certain rapid firing rifles" to section 5.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-to-consult-on-new-laws-on-offensive-weapons

[tackb]

brilliant , I'm sure it will be well thought out and fair

[MrCetrizine]

It's a public consultation. I'm sure BASC and hopefully the NRA will present actual evidence of there being no need to further restrict anything in this country.

Won't hurt to write to your MP and shooting organisation now though.

[maximus otter]

Duh-ble post.

 

m.o.

[maximus otter]

I'm sure BASC and hopefully the NRA will present actual evidence of there being no need to further restrict anything in this country.

 

Which will be ignored. As usual.

 

Grab your ankles...

 

maximus otter

[Xtrema]

It's a public consultation. I'm sure BASC and hopefully the NRA will present actual evidence of there being no need to further restrict anything in this country.

Won't hurt to write to your MP and shooting organisation now though.

You would like to think these two organisations would oppose it but don't hold your breath.

I lost my 2 semi auto rifles in the 80's and my pistols in the 90's and they did nothing, particularly the NRA who appeared to support it at the time.

As a member of both organisations, i shall be writing to both today.

[The_Dogge]

This consultation sounds very similar to one from about 5 years ago, which through effective lobbying and a large count of responses to the consultation (from me included) came to nothing. Lets make sure that happens again.

[Strangely Brown]

This consultation sounds very similar to one from about 5 years ago, which through effective lobbying and a large count of responses to the consultation (from me included) came to nothing. Lets make sure that happens again.

 

I think last time round it would have effectively banned the .577 Snider as well, I dare say the new consultation document will take muzzle energy into consideration as well.

[Laurie]

 

I think last time round it would have effectively banned the .577 Snider as well, I dare say the new consultation document will take muzzle energy into consideration as well.

 

Even if you go down the ME route, you still have problems - what about African dangerous game calibres? HO officials have lots of experience of the legal and drafting pitfalls in trying to meet police and political desires to ban certain 'especially dangerous' firearms and cartridges.

[The Gun Pimp]

Very difficult to ban a calibre - as Laurie says it could embrace big game cartridges and black-powder stuff.

 

If they banned the 50BMG specifically, it would be so easy to 'wildcat' it to something slightly different but, maybe that's the intention/solution - outside of the 7.62x39, the 50BMG must be the most popular ISIS cartridge.

[terryh]

Very difficult to ban a calibre - as Laurie says it could embrace big game cartridges and black-powder stuff.

 

If they banned the 50BMG specifically, it would be so easy to 'wildcat' it to something slightly different but, maybe that's the intention/solution - outside of the 7.62x39, the 50BMG Ford Transit must be the most popular ISIS method cartridge.

 

Vince, IMHO more relevant edit!

 

Be interesting to see how many 50.cals have been used in crimes in say the last 50 years as the investigation is on 'how to clamp down'??

[The Gun Pimp]

Well yes - but just trying to guess their reasoning...............

[maximus otter]

Well yes - but just trying to guess their reasoning...............

You still think that gun laws are based on reasoning?

 

maximus otter

[phaedra1106uk]

Basc statement,

 

https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/basc-seeks-clarification-ahead-of-public-consultation/

[Brushy]

One of the chaps down at my club has submitted a Freedom of Info request to identify the number of 'incidents' involving the .50's. I suspect it will be a brief response.

 

At least the community will be armed with the statistics - although it might be the only thing we are left 'armed' with....

[BlueBoy69]

Very difficult to ban a calibre - as Laurie says it could embrace big game cartridges and black-powder stuff.

 

If they banned the 50BMG specifically, it would be so easy to 'wildcat' it to something slightly different but, maybe that's the intention/solution - outside of the 7.62x39, the 50BMG must be the most popular ISIS cartridge.

 

I think you'll find its the Soviet era 12.7x108 as used by the DShK and other Russian HMG, not the 50 BMG. That or the 14.5x114 used by the KPV HMG (KPVT vehicle version and ZPU AAA installations), or the good old 23x152B used by 2A14 cannon (as used by the ZU AAA guns and ZSU SPAAGs). Popularity of ammo is probably actually the the 7.62x39, then the 7.62x54R, then 5.45x39, then the big boys. They're also been seen using Western infantry personal weapons, so 5.56x45 and 7.62x51.

[Montey]

Just read my emails and spoted this from the NRA re possible ban

What next no straight pulls ? I'm going to take time to wright to my MP and ask his view perhaps I can in lighten him.

Also going to join the local Consetive association what better way to speak directly re our sport.

[LukeSoutherner]

I don't quite understand why everyone isn't up in arms about this (excuse the pun). I looked on the 50 cal. website to see what their take on it was, and there was no mention of it. This post has been up for 8 days and there have been a measly 18 comments.

 

Maybe I'm worrying too much, and I hope that The_Dogge's forecast is correct.

 

This consultation sounds very similar to one from about 5 years ago, which through effective lobbying and a large count of responses to the consultation (from me included) came to nothing. Lets make sure that happens again.

 

This could the thin end of the wedge as the government keeps removing calibres as the banned ones are not deemed necessary: "why do you need a 50 cal? You can use a 338 instead"...and then a few years down the line: ".338 - i don't think you've good enough reason for that - no one hunts with that calibre (so plod will say). You'll have to make do with .308."

 

I'm hoping I'm worrying too much.

[MrCetrizine]

It's just too early to go nuts. It's a consultation that very likely will go nowhere as it's fundamentally lacking in evidence and justification.

 

When the consultation opens, then will be the time to rationally point out the futility of further restriction.

 

Likely though, most people won't respond to the consultation, leaving it to BASC and the NRA who'll no doubt succeed as they have in the past. Then within months they'll say that BASC and the NRA never do anything for shooters, because déjà vu.

[DaveT]

FCSA are working directly with NRA and BASC........there has been direct contact with home office and they are to be applauded for taking up the 'fight'........this integrated effort is the approach most likely to succeed and should be supported.

 

What they DO NOT NEED is disparaging or angry commentary which makes the legitimate shooting community sound like some sort of pissed off rednecks.

 

The issue is being profesionally addressed.

[gbal]

FCSA are working directly with NRA and BASC........there has been direct contact with home office and they are to be applauded for taking up the 'fight'........this integrated effort is the approach most likely to succeed and should be supported.

 

The issue is being profesionally addressed.

So subscribe.BASC are reasoned,informed and effective (as in recent 'expanding missiles' relaxation).

 

gbal

[DaveT]

I am already in all 3 orgs.

[gbal]

Dave,it was meant as agreement with your assessment of effective action-support the named organisations,and an exhortation to others to do so too.Knee jerk, inaccurate and wildly speculative comments don't help ( as you also implied).Actual support eg for BASC does (as in the very recent tidy up on expanding ammo).

 

g

[Markg]

Latest news posted on Gallery Rifle

 

 

 

Last Friday Andrew Mercer (NRA), and Paul Dale (BASC) met with the home office regarding such matters as the club license fees. However they also took the opportunity to raise the issue of the proposed ban on .50 and rapid firing firearms, in an attempt to establish what exactly is the background to this consultation.

 

Apparently .50 and lever release firearms have been on the agenda for a while now, the Home Office have taken the opportunity to include these additional firearm controls in the latest raft of prohibitions on acids and the mail order of bladed weapons.

 

The following points are not set in stone, and until the consultation is open we cannot assume that these are 100% accurate, they may be subject to change.

 

1. The consultation process will open very soon, possibly next week.

2. The consultation will be short, and the outcome (if this results in changes or a ban) will be enacted as primary legislation (law) in JANUARY 2018.

3. The restriction will apply to anything that is capable of generating a muzzle energy that exceeds 10,000ft/lbs

4. The concern over civilians having access to .50 rifles has been elevated following the theft of a .50 rifle from an RFD, however the Home Office believed that the theft was from a regular shooter. They will be corrected on this matter. The stolen firearm was completely functional, in that it was taken with its bolt.

5. The other primary concern is that of the potential material destructive capabilities.

 

The following observations and comments were raised at the meeting.

 

· Andrew pointed out that the FCSA is a very well run club, with an excellent safety record. No criminal use in the UK.

· If these rifles are banned, then the compensation payments bill will be very high due to the extraordinary cost of such rifles and associated equipment.

· We do not use section 5 ammunition, we use target ammunition that is not designed to have any destructive capabilities.

· BASC are most upset that this consultation has been announced without any prior warning, as this in contrary to an agreement previously put in place to eliminate any unexpected surprises.

· The Home Office REALLY doesnt like lever release firearms.

 

I spoke with Andrew at length after his meeting. We discussed the above, in particular points 4 and 5.

 

If the Home Office is concerned that these rifles might fall into the hands of criminals (point 4 above) then we need to provide a solution. The solutions discussed (between the Home Office and the NRA) were as follows:

 

· Complete ban

· Grandfather rights i.e. you can keep and use your .50, you can never sell it to another shooter, when you die it gets destroyed.

· Make .50 rifles section 7.3, this was deemed impractical as we travel vast distances between ranges, we have no armoury to store the rifles in at a range.

· Improve home security, separate the bolt and keep this in a separate safe in a separate room. Possibly require a monitored alarm system for the premises. I prefer this option.

 

The Home Office believe that these are material destruction devices (point 5). This is clearly rubbish when using section 1 ammunition. Andrew advised that to counter this argument we need to state the exact properties of a target projectile, or mil spec ball, impacting on a variety of targets. I have witnessed Amax turning to dust on the surface of a sand backstop, ball ammunition has similar properties. However rather than rely solely on a statement from us, we are calling in an independent ballistic expert, a non-member, and using a private range facility will conduct a series of tests. The evidence gathered will be used to prove our point.

 

BASC is on our side. However not all shooters are, yet. One worrying development that I leaned of today is that one police force are now reluctant to issue a variation for anything over .300 win mag, even to FCSA members. Hopefully this is just one police force and not a new national trend. Unless the entire shooting community backs this opposition campaign then expect to continue to see a never ending wave of consultations, resulting in the eventual ban of everything we enjoy.

 

Social media continues to be a huge problem, some outrageous comments being posted, along with photographs of military looking weapons that would scare the hell out of the average Guardian reader. So please dont get involved in any such online discussions, please dont post photographs and whatever you do dont get angry. Everything we do online is being watched, angry folks with guns can expect an unwelcome visit from the law, especially in the current political environment.

 

As soon as the consultation goes live Ill send out another email, with advice on how to respond.

 

Many thanks,

 

Chris Stevenson

Chairman, FCSA (UK)

[DaveT]

Dave,it was meant as agreement with your assessment of effective action-support the named organisations,and an exhortation to others to do so too.Knee jerk, inaccurate and wildly speculative comments don't help ( as you also implied).Actual support eg for BASC does (as in the very recent tidy up on expanding ammo).

g

Sorry Gbal.....misunderstood!