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H4350 substitute for 6.5x47L

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Hi

I am currently using h4350 with 140g ELD M'S.

Have bought a few hundred of the eld x's but didnt want to build up a load with the H4350 due to the fact that the H4350 has probably had its day here in the good old uk.

Just wanted a few suggestions for an alternative powder using the 143g eld x's.

Thanks for any help!!

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Following with interest - just purchased a 6.5x47 that was shooting H4350 and Nosler Ballistic Tip 120gr very well.

I also have a couple of boxes of Hornady 140gr SST as well that will need a load.

I did ask in another post how long H4350 would keep and was told 10 years unopened......

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I'm also following with interest. I use H4350 with Berger 130 grain VLDs, and with 142 grain SMKs in my Creedmoor.

I was simply going to move over to RS62 but after reading a couple of recent negative post about it I'm now not so sure.

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I'm also following with interest. I use H4350 with Berger 130 grain VLDs, and with 142 grain SMKs in my Creedmoor.

I was simply going to move over to RS62 but after reading a couple of recent negative post about it I'm now not so sure.

 

Wouldn't N160 be a viable alternative?

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I'm also following with interest. I use H4350 with Berger 130 grain VLDs, and with 142 grain SMKs in my Creedmoor.

I was simply going to move over to RS62 but after reading a couple of recent negative post about it I'm now not so sure.

RS60 is the one mate

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If it's a 6.5X47L that prefers H. VarGet, IMR-4166 'Enduron', RS50, N140/150 or RS52 are the obvious replacements with RS52 and 4166 being the ones I'd look at first. For '47Ls that prefer a slower burning grade (as mine did when I had one) ie the IMR/H4350 fanciers, the equivalents are Viht N150, RS62, Lovex SO70, and IMR-4451 'Enduron'. For double-based and/or high-energy equivalents to the 4350s, that's IMR-4451 (the 'Endurons' have small percentage nitroglycerin components like the Bofors / Alliant Re grades) RS60, and Ramshot Hunter. N150 can work very well in this cartridge - it's what I settled on after trying a few powders - but not all barrels like slower burning powders in this chambering.

 

Out of interest, I've started doing some side by sides on IMR, H4350., and the last named trio in an old 7X57mm BSA Hunter. As I won't be back on the ranges for a few weeks this has suffered a hiatus, but it'll be interesting to see how they vary in terms of MVs and consistencies. One immediate finding confirms the longstanding advice that burning rates / behaviours may vary depending on the cartridge's internal ballistics relationships - ie the case capacity to bore area ratio and allowed peak pressures. Whilst IMR-4451 seemed slightly 'slower' in 6.5 Creedmoor than H4350 - ie achieved lower MVs with a given charge and needed ~ an extra 1gn to provide equivalence, this is reversed in 7X57, that also confirmed by Hodgdon's loads tables for the cartridge.

 

N160 is definitely on the too slow burning / bulky side for the Creedmoor and even more so for the 6.5X47L. It is also 'a bit so' in the 260 Rem - but less so given the cartridge's 15% higher case capacity - but is a popular powder there for many users. In this cartridge it provides enough performance for most people, achieves high enough pressures to burn efficiently, and does so at modest pressures and temperatures giving exceptionally good barrel life for high round-count and fast-shooting CSR etc competitors. In the smaller Creedmoor case it might just achieve normal working pressures with heavily compressed charges. It is viable if lower MVs are acceptable and a fairly long drop tube is used on the powder funnel with a slow pour. The thinner makes of brass might be better than Norma and Lapua though, and I don't know what the small primer / flash-hole set-up in the Lapua case would do as it usually depresses performance further needing a slightly higher charge weight to compensate. For 6.5X47L, N150/550 is the slowest burning Viht powder that will work properly.

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Wouldn't N160 be a viable alternative?

As Laurie says, and according to Quickload, N160 is way too slow for both the '47L and Creedmoor.

As for Justin's RS60 recommendation, I have a nice load for the 139 Scenar for my '47 but I'm reluctant to use it both for the 47 and my Creedmoor because of its barrel burning characteristics.

I've not tried RS52 for anything above 123 grains in either calibre yet but it's worth a try.

 

Regarding the IMR powders Laurie, are they not caught in the REACH net?

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Interesting, thank you (and thanks Laurie). I'm about to start loading for CM myself, and was going to go down the RS 62 route, but perhaps I'l try the N150 as from what Laurie suggests, it's a good shout in single base types. I had been led to believe that the nitroglycerine infused RS powders weren't as bad as other double base types on the barrel providing loads were kept moderately warm rather than hot? I guess that depends what bullet weights are used and what velocities are called for.

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The four new 'Enduron' grades - 4166 (VarGet / H4895 substitute); 4451 (4350s); 4955 (vice 4831s); and 7977 (v H1000 and some slower still grades) are all 'green' formulations and REACH-compliant. 4166, 4451, and 7977 are already certified. 4955 hadn't reached us last time I asked and I assume has still to get its new CE approavl, ...... but who knows that may already be done as Hodgdon (which markets and distributes IMR grades) is very smart in this regard.

 

The Endurons are mildy high-energy in that like the Alliant / Bofors powders, they contain a small nitroglycerin component. Although 4166 and 4451 have been in use in the USA for getting on for a couple of years now, there are no barrel wear 'rumbles' so far - and if loads are kept sensible I wouldn't expect any as per Re15 experience. Unlike Re15, 19, 22 etc they are much less temperature affected though. Side by side tests with the Hogdon / ADI 'Extreme' grades don't show them as being as good as H4350 in particular, but as much improved over the Re grades and older single-based IMR powders. So, in our relatively modest weather, I imagine we can forget the temperature issue just as if we were using Hodgdon Extremes.

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Hi

Thanks for all the info!

As expected there are plenty of options with no difinitive answer,(as is always the case with home loads). Way to many variables and personal results. IMR 4451 keeps appearing in search reults that i have done. I have heard that Vit n550 is very hard on barrels!

Read quite a lot of stuff from folk in the USA qouting RE17 for the heavier bullets in 6.5x47L but havnt realy found any info from over here using it.

Please keep the posts coming.

 

Cheers

 

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Hi

Thanks for all the info!

.....................

Please keep the posts coming.

 

Cheers

 

And for the lower weight bullets (120gr) - really appreciate the knowledge sharing - thanks.

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And for the lower weight bullets (120gr) - really appreciate the knowledge sharing - thanks.

Reloder15 without a doubt. Close to that in performance is RS50.

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Reloder15 without a doubt. Close to that in performance is RS50.

Thanks - will bookmark.

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Hi I watch with interest on this to as a 6.5x47L user & my rifle likes the slower stuff. All I use is H4350 in 123g bullets but I do also use N150 & have done for years & it is outstanding in 123g & 130g vld. I think I may just stick with the N150 route for now as I have two great loads for it. At 500yrd I had the same drop dilled in as an exact same rifle but run on RE15. I highly rate the N150 & think my answer is already in front of me rather than chasing other powders.

Ok mine is Borden alpine action true flite barrel at 24" long in contour 4.

Loads for N150 are 37.4g for 123g A-Max & 36.5g for 130g vld all primers are cci-450

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Just a thought - would it be useful for people to post their barrel lengths / action when they post as a reference point for others? - might help understand the differences or offer options for people to start their loads with. (I will go and measure mine now....). Ideally edit back into original post to make this a really useful exchange of ideas.

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I initially used the 47 RS50 and Vhita150 ... in the first case I did not get to pass 860 m / s and with the Vhita I reached 870 m / s, from these two speeds, I started to have pressure problems. I spend a barrel of 28 "and now I use the RS52 in a load of 37.5 and reach the average 895 m / s ... And I get a great precision. Maybe the life of the barrel, is shorter, but I have saved 500 shots looking for the node with other gunpowder The more you spend an RS52 a barrel than a Vhita 150?

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I initially used the 47 RS50 and Vhita150 ... in the first case I did not get to pass 860 m / s and with the Vhita I reached 870 m / s, from these two speeds, I started to have pressure problems. I spend a barrel of 28 "and now I use the RS52 in a load of 37.5 and reach the average 895 m / s ... And I get a great precision. Maybe the life of the barrel, is shorter, but I have saved 500 shots looking for the node with other gunpowder The more you spend an RS52 a barrel than a Vhita 150?

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