Jump to content
BlueBoy69

What Straight-Pull/Lever-Release-Like Tactical Rifle?

Recommended Posts

I'm pondering a straight-pull, possibly a lever-release (I guess technically an interrupted semi-auto in which the bolt is held open after each shot) tactical rifle, but there are so many out there!

 

It's really just for informal shooting, maybe the odd club competition up to 200 m, so I don't need match accuracy.

 

As I have 22 PPC USA, 6 mm PPC USA and 6.5x47L mm bolt action rifles, plus a 45 calibre in lever action rifle (so no 458 SOCOM or Bushmaster) I'm quite interested in either 300 AAC Blackout, or maybe 308 Winchester. The leaning to the former as I really don't need the power and like the subsonic suppressed nature of the 300 AAC Blackout.

 

I found all these are made in 300 AAC Blackout, not sure if they are any good, or what others are available?

 

Ballistic Arms XR-15 300 Blk Competition Straight Pull Rifle 18" barrel (16" version)
Calibre Innovations Side Charging ARRifle (CISCAR)
Robinson Armaments XCR-L, there's a UK-legal 'lever-release' version sold by Lodock Gear in the UK (link).

 

Other than the XCR-M in 308, not sure about other rifles in that calibre?

 

Anyway, what are peoples' experiences and preferences in the firearms type?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big Chief Black Rifle say "Bradders speak with bipod tongue.Bradley best."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to shoot the middle of the target from more than 100m away then whatever manufacturer you choose, don't go with .300 AAC, it is not a target round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Braders

Baldie

Or fat bob

Any of the others are playing at it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you're in Surrey, get up and see Bradders, knowing you'll get what you need and not get a hard sell.

 

I was a late convert to AR rifles but am now totally converted due to the brilliance, reliability and accuracy of my BAR 15. Sufficiently and surprisingly accurate out to 600 yds, even with factory ammo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah those are all the best, definitely get one of those

That's what I'd do

 

They all OK then, or were you just pulling my leg :P

 

If you want to shoot the middle of the target from more than 100m away then whatever manufacturer you choose, don't go with .300 AAC, it is not a target round.

 

Hmm, I'm not after a match round, just something fun. I've already got a 22 PPC USA, 6 mm PPC USA and a 6.5x47L for accuracy. The reviews of the 300 AAC Blackout are up and down accuracy wise, some getting considerably less than one MOA, others not so good.

 

At a guess this sporadic accuracy is most likely due to the high twist rate that results in a statically stable (gyroscopically stabilised) projectile, but one which may have dynamically stability (yaw is not damped) problems. Most projectiles fired from the common 1:8" twist used with the 300 AAC Blackout are generally highly over stabilised for all but heavyweight bullets at subsonic velocities. When fired from a 1:8" .308 barrel the Sg factor on 110 grain Speer spire point is around 7.8 at 2,400 fps, a 125 grain Sierra TMK at 2,200 fps is around 3.6, a Berger 150 grain FBHP at 2,000 fps around 2.89 and a 240 grain SMK at 1,030 fps has a Sg factor of 1.8.

 

This over stabilisation and possible dynamic stability problems may also be what's been causing people to have accuracy problems with the 357 magnum rifles at long, but not short range with lower speed ammo. The short pistol bullets even, when fired from a standard 1:16" 357 barrel, are highly over stabilised, the bullets also travelling in the transonic region which can cause large changes in the centre of pressure which can cause not end of stability problems.

 

Are callibre innovations any good?

 

Not sure who you are asking? I'd say they are good, if not we'd all be using Flobert rimfire cartridges, or some other old round like a pinfire!

 

 

As you're in Surrey, get up and see Bradders, knowing you'll get what you need and not get a hard sell.

 

I was a late convert to AR rifles but am now totally converted due to the brilliance, reliability and accuracy of my BAR 15. Sufficiently and surprisingly accurate out to 600 yds, even with factory ammo.

 

I did cross my mind, but I didn't think he made anything other than 22 LR and 223 Rem/223 Wylde/5.56 based rifles? Plus I'm not bothered about shooting the rifle to 600 yards. Already got two rifles for that.

 

I might be interested in another 30 calibre cartridge suitable for AR platforms, but what is there, 300 Blackout and 308 Winchester, maybe a 30 Remington AR, a 30 BR, or 30 PPC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hmm, I'm not after a match round, just something fun. I've already got a 22 PPC, 6 PPC and a 6.5x47 for accuracy.

 

Mine was definitely fun. The sound of a decently suppressed subsonic 220gn round is brilliant. Like an air rifle firing a brick.

I've heard a lot of people claim accuracy from their Blackout, I've never seen proof. Mine was what I'd describe as rimfire accuracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just on the lever release - if dropping a substantial amount of beer tokens why not wait until the British Shooting Show in February and have a look at Southern Gun Company and the XCR from Benchgrade Brands (Ewen) both were at last years BSS.

 

Or for less cash but ticking your fun box a vz58 (858) lever release, imported I think by Caladonian arms? They are very well made for what they are and served the Czech army well for many a year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

It did cross my mind, but I didn't think he made anything other than 22 LR and 223 Rem/223 Wylde/5.56 based rifles? Plus I'm not bothered about shooting the rifle to 600 yards. Already got two rifles for that.

 

I might be interested in another 30 calibre cartridge suitable for AR platforms, but what is there, 300 Blackout and 308 Winchester, maybe a 30 Remington AR, a 30 BR, or 30 PPC?

I built my first Blackout in 2005, when it was the less fashionable .300 Whisper, still have it to this day, and truth be told, have probably put more together than everyone else combined

 

I've also built 6.5 Grendels, was the first to put 6MM ARs together, even built a 9mm once, and am just about to rebarrel another (not for the first time I might add)

I also built a couple of ARs in 6BR Norma once too, I think I also did a 6.8 SPC once

 

Then there's the 308 family...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I built my first Blackout in 2005, when it was the less fashionable .300 Whisper, still have it to this day, and truth be told, have probably put more together than everyone else combined

 

I've also built 6.5 Grendels, was the first to put 6MM ARs together, even built a 9mm once, and am just about to rebarrel another (not for the first time I might add)

I also built a couple of ARs in 6BR Norma once too, I think I also did a 6.8 SPC once

 

Then there's the 308 family...

 

Ah, just going by what's on the website I couldn't see any other calibre. Sounds like you've been there already. How did you find the 300 Whisper/Blackout?

 

So, were those other straight/lever release rifles I mentioned any good?

 

I tempted just to go with the 300 Blackout simply as high quality cases are available from Lapua. A straight pull in 30 BR or 30 PPC should be pretty accurate up to 300 m, but both will require case manufacture from the base 6 mm BR or 220 Russian case. The 30 BR seems the easier of the two to make.

 

 

Just on the lever release - if dropping a substantial amount of beer tokens why not wait until the British Shooting Show in February and have a look at Southern Gun Company and the XCR from Benchgrade Brands (Ewen) both were at last years BSS.

 

Or for less cash but ticking your fun box a vz58 (858) lever release, imported I think by Caladonian arms? They are very well made for what they are and served the Czech army well for many a year.

 

Well my FAC is due for renewal in December 2017, so may I will wait until next years British Shooting Show... maybe :P

 

Not keen on the Vz58 rifles. Tried one, didn't like it. Not keen on AK-like rifles anyway, though the Vz58 has a very different internal operation mechanism as far as I can remember?

 

Oh choices, choices....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I built my first Blackout in 2005, when it was the less fashionable .300 Whisper, still have it to this day, and truth be told, have probably put more together than everyone else combined

 

I've also built 6.5 Grendels, was the first to put 6MM ARs together, even built a 9mm once, and am just about to rebarrel another (not for the first time I might add)

I also built a couple of ARs in 6BR Norma once too, I think I also did a 6.8 SPC once

 

Then there's the 308 family...

Bradders, Sort your website out. It's crap

 

I had a Bradley Arms .223 AR15. I sold it because I couldn't compete in CSR due to medical reasons. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I should have kept it for foxing.

 

 

A black rifle can often be over looked and looked down upon. But that rifle was a tack driver and my first foray into the AR ergonomics which are cracking.

 

Also consider 6 Grendel. Baldie has been known to state this is the round 6.5 Grendel should have been in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bradders, Sort your website out. It's crap

 

 

One of these days

 

Actually most of the promoting is done via Facebook these days

 

With regards to the rifles, you have 2 choices

1) buy from someone who has been around for a while and has managed to build up a reputation

2) buy from someone who offers vapourware rifles made from unobtanium or who has no history.

 

From some peoiple, what you see is what you get

From others , what you see is only part of what you get

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 6mAR is a cracking round, and to be honest, i don't know why I don't use mine more. I never really did much load development with it, as it just shot straight out of the box Dave.

 

However, i built one a couple of weeks back, and the chap is getting 2950 with a 90 grain berger, and no pressure signs. The last load he tried was starting to edge towards another accuracy node when he ran out of ammo. It was shooting 1/2" groups. If he gets to 3000 fps and achieves the same groups or tighter, its going to whup a 77grain /.223 by some margin.

 

Downside is , its got a 26" tube and therefore, realistically a bipod gun.

 

I completely agree with Mark regarding builders. There are loads out there, but very few indeed with a reputation thats worth a wank.

 

I would suggest looking at who wins and what with for the OP.

 

Its usually one of Mark's, Bob's or mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of these days

 

Actually most of the promoting is done via Facebook these days

 

With regards to the rifles, you have 2 choices

1) buy from someone who has been around for a while and has managed to build up a reputation

2) buy from someone who offers vapourware rifles made from unobtanium or who has no history.

 

From some peoiple, what you see is what you get

From others , what you see is only part of what you get

Not everyone uses / has a faceache account + it does not give a professional image .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not everyone uses / has a faceache account + it does not give a professional image .

 

Yeah, very true. I deleted (if it ever actually gets deleted?) my Facecrap account years ago. I use no social media sites, nor do I ever want to, well unless this is treated as one? I do have a Google+ account that I don't use and I only have that because I was forced to create it when they changed the rules with Gmail some time ago. I'm not sure being creating a Google+ account is still a requirement to use Gmail now, if it isn't, I'll delete that too in a mo?

 

So, though Facecrap is useful to many people, it is very important to combine it with a easy to use and informative website. A website is very important, well imperative, to non social media users! I'd imagine having a Facecrap account results in an increased profile and this is important to some companies, this especially so if it brings in business. Ultimately though, Facecrap isn't a very professional way to do business and I personally avoid it like the plague. If a net/web search engine brings me to their Facecrap page, I try to find their actual website and if they don't have one, I don't deal with them.

 

Anyway, this is completely off the primary topic, so back on to it. For various reasons I've completely gone/been put off the whole tactical rifle thing anyway, so won't be pursuing the purchase of, or thinking about, getting one now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you're in Surrey, get up and see Bradders, knowing you'll get what you need and not get a hard sell.

 

I was a late convert to AR rifles but am now totally converted due to the brilliance, reliability and accuracy of my BAR 15. Sufficiently and surprisingly accurate out to 600 yds, even with factory ammo.

But that's the thing. They aren't really (In the true sense) "AR's". Don't get me wrong, I sooo regret not having a "real" AR15 when i could..... I love all variants M4/AR15/M16, and the rest probably over almost all other rifles! But due to one retard, and an inefficient (as prob most were then) Police Force. All decent folks, as usual had to suffer...

I could never see myself, (at the moment) buying an "interrupted semi-auto". Hat's off to those that do. It would just be a constant reminder of what could have been..... As per the caveats, never say never though........

 

Out of the 3 listed though, for me it would be the XCR-L. A break from the norm....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could never see myself, (at the moment) buying an "interrupted semi-auto". Hat's off to those that do. It would just be a constant reminder of what could have been.....

 

 

Stupid talk is stupid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Stupid talk is stupid

And the truth is always true.....

 

But i agree with your statement...... :)

bradders

Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:47 PM

I'm waiting for the .260x47 Swedish Creedmoor Improved 6.5 Ackley Wombat Magnum x 284 to come out

That'll be a winner, ooh yes....but only with small primer brass under a full moon in April

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sunday summary

 

" Stupid talk is stupid" sounds like a tautology,but that neglects pragmatic intentions and effect..remember the NHS Red Bus,and the likely EU bill? Time can change things.

 

"The truth is always true". Err maybe not..."Trump is president" won't always be true.

 

And there is the intriguing theory of 'alternative truths'-not in some parralllel universes,but right here in this same one, according to an unpresidented revelation by a sometime stupid president.

 

Ps....

Early reports on the Wombat say it shoots flat to 400yards,then rises up a bit;and shoots 10 shots into a less than calibre size group,with or without a bipod.Lapua brass is 10 cents each with free annealing,anytime. It even works with REACH powders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the truth is always true.....

 

But i agree with your statement...... :)

bradders

Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:47 PM

I'm waiting for the .260x47 Swedish Creedmoor Improved 6.5 Ackley Wombat Magnum x 284 to come out

That'll be a winner, ooh yes....but only with small primer brass under a full moon in April

Yeah, but that part is true

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had it not been for an unfortunate e mail cock up (it disapeared into cyber space) I would have bought my 22 from Mr Bradley and probably will buy from him in the future .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


safeshot 200.jpg

tacfire 200.jpg

blackrifle.png

jr_firearms_200.gif

valkyrie 200.jpg

RifleMags_200x100.jpg

border_ballistics_UKV_ad.jpg

dolphin button4 (200x100).jpg

CASEPREP_FINAL_YELLOW_hi_res__200_.jpg

rovicom200.jpg

BHTargets200.jpg

Lumensmini.png

CALTON MOOR RANGE (2) (200x135).jpg

bradley1 200.jpg

NVstore200.jpg

Danny Trowsdale 200.png

tab 200.jpg



×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy