General Election

[John MH]

Well, IMHO what they (the Conservatives) should do now is let the dust settle and get on with governing the UK in the best interests of the Union.

 

What the rest of parliament need to do is stop bickering about personalities.

 

Some facts on numbers:

 

Total Votes & Turnout

 

2005 - Turnout 61.2%

 

Conservative - 8,785,941

Labour - 9,566,618

 

2010 - Turnout 65.1%

 

Conservative - 10,703,744

Labour - 8,606,518

 

2015 - Turnout 66.1%

 

Conservative - 11,334,920

Labour - 9,347,326

 

2017 - Turnout 68.7%

 

Conservative - 13,667,213

Labour - 12,874,985

 

Whilst you could say no one won the fact is the Conservatives did win and Labour lost. Problem is the Conservatives did not win by a big enough margin. The Labour way was rejected by the vast majority, most people know that their kind of socialism does not work, we just need to convince the ideologically bright eyed youth, with a lack any real world experience, that socialism stops working when the money runs out and that it always runs out super-fast under Labour.

 

A good move now would be for all the Bremoaners to STFH, we are leaving the EU; period.

 

Another good and brave move would be for the Government to form a ‘Cross Party’ Brexit negotiating team lead by David Davies (one of the most competent and well briefed politicians around at the moment) and including ‘Brexiteers’ from all parties including the devolved administrations; they wanted it they should own it. If formed this team would need to be non-party political and work for the national interest. The final deal could then be put to parliament for a free vote and if not accepted we leave without a deal as we would be unlikely to ever get one people could agree on.

 

And while the Brexit negotiations are going on in the background the rest of the government can get on with growing the economy, attraction business to the UK, making the public services more efficient, investing in infrastructure and revising further education – going to university should not be a right, it should be for the cleverest from school and the government should fund degree courses for skills that are needed and particularly public service – medicine, engineering, teaching, science. If you work in public service for 5 years after graduation you pay nothing. Do not fund law, politics, media studies, social science degrees or any of the other soft academically non-rigorous courses that the universities and made up colleges have created to expand their foot print and profits whilst dumbing down the value of what being degree educated meant 30 years ago.

 

And then lets work out how and who is going to pay for the social care of an ageing population, someone has too and it cannot all be on the state.

[TSG]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/video/2017/jun/10/tony-walsh-performs-his-election-poem-net-worked-video

 

Hope this link works. You will all love it.

As Mrs TSG says on a regular basis 'poetry is sh1t

[bradders]

Timeline?

Reality?

 

That's cheap, and you know it.

 

Next you'll be adding weight to the Labour revisionism that has Corbyn as a contributor to The Good Friday agreement, as opposed to the simple professional agitator who had fe kk all to do with any peace initiatives at all -Zero, Zip - but simply enjoyed getting a woodie every time he and his replusive Britain-hating trot buddies cosied up to active terrorists.

I'm merely showing a perspective.

I couldn't care less about Corbyn, never liked him and never will.

However, after seeing the drivel spouted by supporters of both sides leading up to this, it was pitiful.

 

All sides in N Ireland have had a little blood and mud on their hands. What makes them viable is they have put it behind them and worked for the best for all their own people.

Christ, they sing the praises of each other, Paisley, Irvine (RIP) Adams, McGuinness, Robinson. All men with a chequered past and all who when it was over knuckled down and worked together.

 

But for those who dont follow N Ireland politics, have a look at the DPs policies and then tell me where they fit in with UK Conservatism

[John MH]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/video/2017/jun/10/tony-walsh-performs-his-election-poem-net-worked-video

 

Hope this link works. You will all love it.

As Mrs TSG says on a regular basis 'poetry is sh1t

 

 

Again this points to the idealistic youth with no idea how the real world works and how we pay for things, it would be great if we could all have what was promised in the 'fully costed manifesto' but the reality is it could never be delivered.

[VarmLR]

 

 

Again this points to the idealistic youth with no idea how the real world works and how we pay for things, it would be great if we could all have what was promised in the 'fully costed manifesto' but the reality is it could never be delivered.

 

Precisely.

 

This constant inward navel gazing by the UK politicians, the media (who love a good circus) AND the public needs to stop, and as John says, the government ought to get on with governing and BREXIT negotiations, preferably the hardest brexit possible, as nothing else makes sense (the EU wanting what's best for them, not the UK). Sadly, there's little chance at all of this happening. The inner warring factions have already stirred and proving to be the complete waste of skin that they are. UK politics is in a shameful state, worse now than possibly it ever has been. The UK public needs to shake themselves out of their stupor and stop looking at the word in terms of "what's in it for me, and I'm not paying a penny" and UK politicians need to grow a set of cahonies and behave like dignified professionals who actually kbnow what they're about and work as a team. Fat chance. We're all along for the ride at the minute and the naive young have been conned into voting for an ideology, not reality.

[brown dog]

A useful clarification:

 

[Artiglio]

Over the last 50 years or so politicians of all hues have used every trick/wheeze/accounting trick to "improve" the country, for the most part things are better than 50 years ago, but its now all come home to roost, we've driven ourselves up a blind alley.

 

My local A&E looks like the audition room for Jeremy Kyle or "shameless", 20% don't speak English (and don't wish to) TB is becoming a problem locally, the NHS is burdened by those that make no effort to look after themselves.

Local primary schools have behaviour mentors and family liaison officers that knock on doors of parents whose kids have not turned to school, to find at 10am no one in the household is out of bed. When did either of those become necessary in a civilised society.

Locally a single male under 35 working 32 hours for £8 takes home around £250 and most likely lives with his parents, someone standing next to him with a partner and 2 kids has his money topped up to over £500. (Hence the attraction for migrants, even more so when you add in health and education) If society chooses to do this ok, but put the full £500 in both wage packets and do the rest with tax, the single male may not be so content then.

Further education is used by too many as a way to avoid supporting themselves for 3 years and have no intention or ability to earn enough to pay the loan back anyway.

None of our proffered leaders wishes to address any of this, it'd just alienate too many. As a society too much is demanded from an economy that has too little productivity and as such creates too little real wealth per capita.

Parties are trying to lead the electorate to believe they can turn a 50 year plus decline around in 5, totally impractical, but for those that want everything now on credit its what they want to hear.

Corbyn bought the youth vote with the pledge to end tuition fees, takes a strong person to decline 30K just for getting out of bed by 9pm and putting a cross in a box. But the tory response was to shout about "magic money trees", hardly a measured constructive response.

Brexit in any form I'd like to see is all but finished, we've a government led by a gurning marionette devoid of leadership skills or anything remotely appealing to the electorate. The sooner this government collapses and we have a new election based on a decent campaign the better and the Tories need to get Farage into the fold and let him loose.

 

One of the few that I've seen that inspires confidence over the last couple of years is Dominic Grieve, former attorney general. Seems a no nonsense sort of chap.

[Brillo]

Over the last 50 years or so politicians of all hues have used every trick/wheeze/accounting trick to "improve" the country, for the most part things are better than 50 years ago, but its now all come home to roost, we've driven ourselves up a blind alley.My local A&E looks like the audition room for Jeremy Kyle or "shameless", 20% don't speak English (and don't wish to) TB is becoming a problem locally, the NHS is burdened by those that make no effort to look after themselves.Local primary schools have behaviour mentors and family liaison officers that knock on doors of parents whose kids have not turned to school, to find at 10am no one in the household is out of bed. When did either of those become necessary in a civilised society.Locally a single male under 35 working 32 hours for £8 takes home around £250 and most likely lives with his parents, someone standing next to him with a partner and 2 kids has his money topped up to over £500. (Hence the attraction for migrants, even more so when you add in health and education) If society chooses to do this ok, but put the full £500 in both wage packets and do the rest with tax, the single male may not be so content then.Further education is used by too many as a way to avoid supporting themselves for 3 years and have no intention or ability to earn enough to pay the loan back anyway.None of our proffered leaders wishes to address any of this, it'd just alienate too many. As a society too much is demanded from an economy that has too little productivity and as such creates too little real wealth per capita.Parties are trying to lead the electorate to believe they can turn a 50 year plus decline around in 5, totally impractical, but for those that want everything now on credit its what they want to hear.Corbyn bought the youth vote with the pledge to end tuition fees, takes a strong person to decline 30K just for getting out of bed by 9pm and putting a cross in a box. But the tory response was to shout about "magic money trees", hardly a measured constructive response.Brexit in any form I'd like to see is all but finished, we've a government led by a gurning marionette devoid of leadership skills or anything remotely appealing to the electorate. The sooner this government collapses and we have a new election based on a decent campaign the better and the Tories need to get Farage into the fold and let him loose.One of the few that I've seen that inspires confidence over the last couple of years is Dominic Grieve, former attorney general. Seems a no nonsense sort of chap.

Well said that man. Summed up in a nut shell.

[John MH]

This description of the DUP Manifesto made me chuckle.

 

Basically the Bible with twice weekly bin collections.

[brown dog]

[gbal]

A useful clarification:

FB_IMG_1497184620851.jpg

Once you realise some of politics IS a zero sum game (eg seats won and lost-what one wins,others must lose) and some IS NOT eg prestige of leaders (both could increase,or decrease independently,or just change variously),then you begin to see that it isn't all such a simple black/white ,yes/no,win all/lose all affair. Simples don't tell the full story,and apparent contradictions (as above) capture some realities.

One person's happiness is not neccessarily gained by someone else's corresponding misery,and both could go the same way....Once you get those truths sorted,and which is which,issue by issue,you should have better understanding and decision making in eg politics,or economics or....life.

 

gbal

[Vermincinerator]

I had to watch the video several times to make sure what i saw was what i thought it was, a very nice Black 2016 Dodge Challenger passing in the background at 1.26

 

Ian

[MrCetrizine]

It belongs to Caroline Lucas.

[Re-Pete]

At last, Ian, someone who sees the big picture................

 

RePete

[brown dog]

[tackb]

[gazzarM1]

IMG_3094.JPG

lol spot on

[Gandy]

To bring a little balance I hear May Fuc'DUP

[gbal]

It belongs to Caroline Lucas.

It might surprise some to read Caroline Lucas account of Parliament (Honourable Friends-Parliament and the Fight for change")-you can read the short review by Andrew Simms in the Guardian 13 March 2016 (yes I know,but give it a fair chance...)...here the scurrilous four letter Anglo Saxon derogatories sometimes seen even in UKV are conspicuously absent,but replaced by coherent and 'fully costed'-or at least evidenced-commentary on the dysfunctional and alienating institution where we have outsourced democracy,and call the House of Commons-an an outmoded institution with many institutionalised members. (Sound like 'all the same, in the troughs for themselves,etc etc?...well,get some details...)

She is anything but ' green as a cabbage'.We would do well to have more like her-irrrespective of political affiliation,about 215 more would do. Worth ten minutes to get informed-you might be surprised how your scathing dismissals of politicians can be supported-just a sip: expenditure on champagne in the House bars etc increased in the austerity years...but it's generally more serious than that...

No, I didn't vote Green;yes I think she is attractive on many levels,and doubt that she has a gas guzzler,but no-one is perfect. Some are farther away than others. I'm sure she can swear too. She certainly can think. :-)

 

gbal

[John MH]

Deluded as usual.

[gbal]

Ahh,John,

I too smiled at your quoted descriptor of the DUP.

 

If only you could express your thoughts and assay intelligent commentary (here by Caroline Lucas and Andrew Simms,not mine) with more than 1% of the admirable diligence and precision with which you weigh powder kernels,we might all benefit,as much as we do when reloading.

 

My apologies if they (CL and AS) were the referents of your single dismissive word,but "as usual" suggests I was at least included-deluded is perhaps another matter.

 

Caroline Lucas' analysis and critique of the House of Commons and aspects of Parliament are of course quite separate from her specific views on manifesto policies,none of which were mentioned,in approval or otherwise.

 

atb

g

[Artiglio]

But we live in a sound bite, catchphrase age, i'd guess there is more written in this thread than 80% of voters bothered to read , let alone do any research of their own.

As a result the propoganda thrown out is just designed to catch attention and resonate.

[les]

If there is to be an Autumn election - which is looking unlikely now - then Corbyn will be exposed for the fraud that he is. His claims of free this, that and everything else will come under close scrutiny the next time around, and he'll be found to be sadly lacking.

 

It probably won't stop the young and old 'commies' voting for him, though, but I suspect (hope!) the numbers will be greatly reduced.

[Vermincinerator]

It belongs to Caroline Lucas.

Ha LOL, i think the thought of a 6.2L V8 pumping out all that CO2 would have her frothing at the mouth, and spouting garbled gobbledegook.

 

Ian.

[VarmLR]

If there is to be an Autumn election - which is looking unlikely now - then Corbyn will be exposed for the fraud that he is. His claims of free this, that and everything else will come under close scrutiny the next time around, and he'll be found to be sadly lacking.

 

It probably won't stop the young and old 'commies' voting for him, though, but I suspect (hope!) the numbers will be greatly reduced.

 

 

He was just testing the waters this time round and I think that the results took him as much by surprise as it did the Tories; however, you're correct. By promising the undeliverable, he'll lose some of the more mature voters next time round but will keep the hapless youth who voted this time as (and who can blame them when considering this from their angle) he has more, seemingly, to offer than was offered within the haplessly grey and gloomy Tory manifesto. He played a clever game of "get the vote" where no other politician could entice them to mark their X by spinning them an up-beat yarn and they fell for it. He's not fooling the savvy. The frightening thing is that these youngsters represent the top 10% of our younger generation's society yet can so easily be duped and so readily dismiss the past as irrelevant. They did not live through N Ireland and the troubles; they did not see him sharing a platform with the IRA in solidarity after the Brighton bombing, nor have they read his article published shortly after that cowardly act, in which he praised the actions of the IRA. In different times, he'd have been arrested for treason and imprisoned.

 

May has a Cherie-Blair-esque letter box smile behind which lays utter incompetence, untrustworthiness and about as much leadership potential as my bullish and headstrong GWP dog. The difference is that everyone who meets "Stanley" likes him. He can't help being what he is. She, on the other hand, was not elected by us, the voting public but was promoted as a "safe pair of hands" with the media as anything was better than the prospect of Boris or Gove (and still is!). She was destined to fail from the outset as PM judging by her track record of failures as Home Secretary, her (then) lies about immigration numbers and control and by her well publicised inability to gain the respect of those she had authority over. She simply does not have the required leadership skills. She may be a decent person in private, but she has taken on a role far above her talents, and been found wanting....again.

 

The biggest mistake that the Tories made was likening UKIP to Fascism. They need to read the dictionary definition of what a Facist is (or else watch some enlightening videos by Tommy Robinson, another one wrongly accused of being something he wasn't). Had they embraced Farage, they had a ready made leader for the taking and could have united an overall majority under UKIP and the Tories. That would have seen to the loony left and the mess that they still threaten to unleash on us (we've not seen anything yet so don't think it's over....it's not and not by a long chalk) kicked into touch.

 

How on earth we arrived at this place where the political establishment got rid of the only people skilled enough and respected enough to lead us to better times, I'll never know. The media, political correctness, and secular leftist- liberalism has a lot to answer for. It has destroyed the UK in short order. That and a complete lack of brains or moral fibre by the country's elite politicians.