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rhhudson

hornady eld match

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Hi,

 

Now that the eld bullets are starting to make their way into the country is it worth swapping from amax or not? From a varminting point of view?

 

I know amax are a target bullet but they have shown their worth on varmints. So my question is what are the eld match like on similar quarry? Or do I stock up on amax and see what happens in the near future?

 

Thanks

Rhhudson

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I have used 140 grn ELD m in my creedmore for a bit now.

 

I have mixed results - The first fox I shot with one looked like it had been in a train crash... but in general I found they don't expand as well as 140 grn Amax.

 

On bunnies , I definitely got more pass through's .... I have stopped using them on quarry because of the increased risk of wounding.

 

 

ATB

S

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I spoke to a local gun shop owner on the ELDs he says the ELDx and ELDm are the same thing according to the Main Hornady importer there the same bullet just different sticker on box .

 

Im not sure i believe the shop owner .?

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I understand that the ELDX the head designed to expand is different in weight and the BC is slightly lower than the match (143 vs 140grn and .314 vs .326 G7)

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What is the eld X replacing?

 

Sst?

 

Vmax?

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....As Sherlock and Cumbrian-weight is different between the ELDX and ELDM,as are the BCs-each given at three velocities,similar to Sierra (BC is a continuous variable,correlated with velocity-both change); nd Sectional densities differ too. And the bullet construction ,as Cumbrian says-the X has the Interlock ring to keep the jacket and core integral after extended expansion,H claim...

 

Furyan and rhhudson.you can read this test below,and see what Hornady are saying-not a direct replacement really,though there is sales talk, ,as well as some actual 'refinements' in the bullet,which is of course,designed for North American species,primarily-"continued progressive expansion" does not sound like small species....but we shall see UK performances as they come on line here...

 

American Rifleman 21 Dec 2015 " Tested:Hornady ELDX bullet."

 

gbal

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If someone has a 6mm / 243 eld X i can section it next to a 6mm eld M i already have ! Haven't loaded any yet so not a clue if they shoot or not . Or i could send a eld M to someone to do the same . To see the cup thickness difference if any  

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Interesting paper on the ELD.  The comment in the middle about the melty nose effects not mattering inside 400 was somehow lost in Hornady's advertising !!

I have read a couple of his books as well. As you say, very informative. He dislikes (with a passion) existing dogma on shooting styles and promptly replaces it with his own dogma ! His ideas were helpful to me up the hill and are more tools in the box.

I appreciate his structured approach to thinking about terminal effects and it again is helpful however I am not sure it is really scientific?  Terminal effects are highly variable with the same bullet depending on the impact point and I wonder whether it is possible for him to have enough data (given this issue) on the performance of all the bullets he talks about at all the ranges etc.  Who knows. Still open mind and all that.

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Agreed! I found his points on sling use and shooting position (when not lying on a perfectly flat shooting point) genuinely and provably helpful - for my results at least

I think the wound database is what you might call an empirical approach to the science!

I have heard of military/law enforcement procurement people who are looking at caliber/bullet procurement researching..... coroner reports!

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Am I missing something but what’s wrong with the intended hornady bullet range for shooting vermin, Vmax? 

Not sure about everyone else but I can get just as good accuracy from Vmax throughout the spectrum as from target bullets for shooting vermin at normal-medium ranges. 

I have shot a few foxes with the 47 using the new eld-x 100gn bullets  over the last month as couldn’t get any 95gn Vmax, can’t tell any difference they all dropped to the shot.

 

Ben 

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It would appear that the global vermin community have been coy in sharing their relative experiences of these bullets

But seriously I can't see it mattering for vermin - I just like the ELD-M BC's for LRS

For deer you need to be more sure of expansion but you won't/should not be shooting them at the sort of long range that sees MV drop impacting expansion

basically this is marketing - not least given that as Chanonry reports from the research the ballistic tips make no odds under 400m - If you like playing and trying new stuff then great - if you are a hard core vermin shooter I would be buying up the cheaper/available/discounted Amax 

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The vmax don't come with a high BC ,for long range vermin shooting a 140 grain bullet with a high BC gives you a better chance of a hit as it bucks the wind better.

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Then you are back with the ELD's

In his book Nathan Foster thinks that the ELD-M's expand as well as the X's but he does talk about game size and mv being a contributor - his book on cartridges has a bunch of info by bullet type and caliber

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On 5/10/2018 at 9:35 PM, Hobbit said:

........and a 22 page piece of research by a mate of his - if you have the time fill your boots!

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/site/ballisticstudies/Hornady ELD-X_ELD-Match_Technical_Details.pdf

 

 

Very interesting results on the gelatine at 800.

 

Not a representative spectrum tested (monolithics) to convince me that they dont expand sufficiently at distance , though food for thought.

 

Have to say I have used ELDX quite extensively in the last 12 months for some cull work - two animals required follow up shots and when recovered and inspected both had terminal injuries from the first impact. 

 

The ELDX has impresive exterior and terminal ballistics.

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3 hours ago, stephentri said:

The vmax don't come with a high BC ,for long range vermin shooting a 140 grain bullet with a high BC gives you a better chance of a hit as it bucks the wind better.

Yes mate understood  but should you be shooting live stuff a silly ranges if your not certain it’s going to hit? Regardless of what flavour bullet is used and weather it’s a rat or a deer. 😀

Ben

 

 

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8 hours ago, BuckhurstBen said:

Yes mate understood  but should you be shooting live stuff a silly ranges if your not certain it’s going to hit? Regardless of what flavour bullet is used and weather it’s a rat or a deer. 😀

Ben

 

 

There are no certainties in life except death, but it helps if you use the best equipment for the task in hand.

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On 5/2/2017 at 7:11 PM, rhhudson said:

Hi,

 

Now that the eld bullets are starting to make their way into the country is it worth swapping from amax or not? From a varminting point of view?

 

I know amax are a target bullet but they have shown their worth on varmints. So my question is what are the eld match like on similar quarry? Or do I stock up on amax and see what happens in the near future?

 

Thanks

Rhhudson

My findings are the 140 gr ELD M does not expand reliably on vermin yet the 147 ELD M does. It makes little sense but that is exactly what I have found. I also share this experience with a couple of my friends who have experuenced the same. 

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