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Blacknsilver

.223 rifle choice

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I had a call from my FEO today regarding my variation. It's seems all good news that the .223 I have asked for for target and fox should be given the ok.

I am leaning towards have a rifle built or at least a custom barrel and a Jewel trigger or equivalent of. If my funds will stretch then a full custom build or second hand rifle.

I have land which gets me to about 400yards max. I will be getting down to a few ranges as soon as my work load slows down.

So. I think I am decided on a 1-8 twist barrel. Barrel length is my question. What should I be looking at? I doubt I will be lugging it about much as I have a .204 for that.

Is there any forums or places to look for second hand .223s other than gun trader etc?

Thanks

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I,ve several donor .223s in stock, i,ll show you them when you call buddy. ;)

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You,ll no doubt be putting a mod on as well,,,,,I think they then look right with about 20 " ahead of the lug ,straight taper no fluting and at least varmint profile.You wont be loosing much velocity compared to a ponderous 24/25 incher with mod.If your gonna get serious on ranges and comp ,,,well that,s a differnet mix I would imagine,,,,,Baldie will help you get it just right for sure,,,O

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You,ll no doubt be putting a mod on as well,,,,,I think they then look right with about 20 " ahead of the lug ,straight taper no fluting and at least varmint profile.You wont be loosing much velocity compared to a ponderous 24/25 incher with mod.If your gonna get serious on ranges and comp ,,,well that,s a differnet mix I would imagine,,,,,Baldie will help you get it just right for sure,,,O

 

Good point on the barrel length. How much would be lost per inch?

Yes a mod would be going on it.

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Blacksilver : on a 24-20 inch 223,about 20 fps per inch,maybe more-it varies a little.

The question then to ask is,will that make a noticeable difference to performance? Not under 400y,it won't.

 

Here conveniently are two commercial SAAMI loads,both 24",50g, BC .242 drop/drift inches 10 mph wind 200 zero

 

Rem 50g VMax @ 3412 200y 0/4.5 300y 6.4/10.8 energy 563 ft lb

BHills 50g VMax @ 3300 200y 0/4.7 300y 6.8/11.4 energy 524 ft lb

 

The obvious crucial point is that 100fps MV makes almost no difference at least to 300y.

400y gives 19.7/20.7 413 ft lb ,and 21.1/21.9 380 ft lb

Individual Rifles will vary a little,of course.

 

Precision will not diminish,if properly recrowned, nor accuracy (the rifle handling added in,with shootability etc).

 

gbal

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gbal those are mighty high velocities for 50gr factory 223 loads, are you sure you have not mixed them up with 22-250

 

Ian.

Ian,thanks- well spotted-I couldn't find more than 50 fps MV diffs, and lapsed into 22/250,forgot to update the intro... the basic equivalence holds out to 400y for those

 

Now corrected to two 223 SAAMI loads,which have the same BC bullet value,but differ by 110fps MV...so make the 300y case even more clearly.

 

gbal

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I had a call from my FEO today regarding my variation. It's seems all good news that the .223 I have asked for for target and fox should be given the ok.

I am leaning towards have a rifle built or at least a custom barrel and a Jewel trigger or equivalent of. If my funds will stretch then a full custom build or second hand rifle.

I have land which gets me to about 400yards max. I will be getting down to a few ranges as soon as my work load slows down.

So. I think I am decided on a 1-8 twist barrel. Barrel length is my question. What should I be looking at? I doubt I will be lugging it about much as I have a .204 for that.

Is there any forums or places to look for second hand .223s other than gun trader etc?

Thanks

 

Had a quick read through this thread and I see you mention shooting on ranges, would these be MoD ranges?

I only ask because Gbal is quoting MVs that exceed the max 3250fps permitted on Military ranges in the UK

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Ian,thanks- well spotted-I couldn't find more than 50 fps MV diffs, and lapsed into 22/250,forgot to update the intro... the basic equivalence holds out to 400y for those

 

Now corrected to two 223 SAAMI loads,which have the same BC bullet value,but differ by 110fps MV...so make the 300y case even more clearly.

 

gbal

Good man.

 

Ian.

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Had a quick read through this thread and I see you mention shooting on ranges, would these be MoD ranges?

I only ask because Gbal is quoting MVs that exceed the max 3250fps permitted on Military ranges in the UK

I had Diggle range in mind. Altcar could be another possible. I have a contact for there.

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I had Diggle range in mind. Altcar could be another possible. I have a contact for there.

Blacksilver-I mislabeled the original examples as 223(they were more 22/250,-my error-though the velocity point was valid-I couldnt find good 223 ones-with same BC,but 100 fps or so less MV,but I have now and these have replaced the original higher velocity loads-the same pay off though-100fps velocity drop results in very small ballistic decrements,at least to 300+ yards (a bit further for higher MVs-where legal,thanks Mark!)

 

Actually,this effect-or lack of it is general-within their respective comfort shooting zones/point blank/high% hits/ etc. 50-75+ fps MV less makes for rather small drop differences-the 22/250 data showed this is true for even higher MVs. 100 fps will begin to show beyond 350 y-when BC starts to bite too....hence my wanting to keep it equal for the barrel shortening point and the 50g shorter range bullets proposed).

 

I hope this has not been misleading,and acknowledge the posts that pointed this out,quite correctly.

 

Now fixed ,with specific 223 data. Same take away: shorter barrel will work fine.

 

gbal

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Hi,

 

Re short barrel length

 

I cut my .223 to 17 inch and get 3077fps from 50gr sako gamehead. It was at 3215 from a standard sporting Howa barrel 22 or 23 in i cant quite remember the exact factory length.

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I seem to remember that average velocity loss, depending on propellants, primers and bullets used, is around 25fps/inch.

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Varm, as you note,it varies -and also with rifle,and a bit with which inch....though it comes out nearly linear...Ballistols refernce is one such source,among several others where one barrel is cut progressively....it's only ten shots at each length,and of course only one barrel but does have several ammos used....

 

22 fps per inch is ball park average of normal 223....so a very considerable ten inches cut back (26-16) reduces MV about 200-225 fps...which matters...how much?... (Of course,the extra drop can be dialled in,as for any load change......see below for effects of 100 fps reduction **).

....one indicator is effect on Maximum Point Blank Range.. the maximum range at which a centre aim hold will still hit the target....depends obviously on target size... Take an 8 inch one,so we are asking :what is the maximum range that a centre aim/hold will still hit +/- 4 inches from that aim point......

.....a 200 fps MV reduction will reduce the MPBR from 305 to 285 yards. BIg deal or no....?

 

There will be loss of terminal energy too-unlikely to be critical at sensible live quarry distances.

There may be handling etc advantages/reasons to shorten.

Often quite acceptable ( eg,20 inch 308s) though not for very long range work,especially with a cartridge already stretching.

 

**drop/drift/energy changes for 50g 224 BC.242 bullet 200 zero,10 mph wind,300y range

 

3412 fps Mv. 6.4/10.8/563

3300 fps Mv. 6.8/11.4/524

 

gbal

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