Small primer Creedmoor

[RPA 6mm BR]

Hi, I have just purchased 200 Lapua 6.5 creedmoor cases which have the small rifle primer as opposed to the standard large rifle primers in other creedmoor brass.

Obviously my resizing die has a standard 2mm decapping get pin and the Lapua brass has a 1.5mm flash hole. What do people recommend to easily get over this as I would think it would take weeks to get a small decapping pin for my crappy Hornady die.

[1967spud]

is it the headed type?

[onehole]

You could get some 1mm,,1.5mm rod from e bay and do it manually for a while,,,,they don't need much tapping out generally,,,,just place the case head over a suitable nut or something so the primer will drop out,,,,,only an idea,,,,,,O

[tackb]

if you load them hot enough the primers fall out of their own accord

[bradders]

if you load them hot enough the primers fall out of their own accord

 

Yesss

 

On another note, you did purchase 200 so it may be a little while before you get through them all and have to do a deprime

[RPA 6mm BR]

is it the headed type?

Yes mate

[Hobbit]

I use a lee universal decapping die for all my brass - I decap clean brass before it goes in the amp annealer and then resize afterwards - I have one set up in a turret hole ready to go - got it when I broke a pin on my 357 resizing die and could not change it - very handy now with the AMP Annealer

 

The die is anywhere from £10-13 online

 

you need to be careful that the case is properly in the shell holder as the lack of the resizing die means that it does not "auto-align" but it works for large and small primers on all cases (perhaps excluding 338 and up and exotics)

[phaedra1106uk]

The Lee pin is too large, it's about 1.7mm

 

Of course you could remove it, shove it into a drill and carefully file it down to around 1.3 - 1.4mm

[Hobbit]

that is odd - I just measured it and you are right it is 1.7mm

 

but it works fine on small primer holes I use (357 pistol and 223 rifle brass)

 

I just pushed a virgin bit of papua 223 brass onto it and the pin went through the primer hole no problem - I would say the hole was 1.8mm at least

 

why would Lapua 6.5cm brass have a smaller hole??

[Hobbit]

And surely Lapua thought of this when they designed their brass

 

I have just checked and both my 308 and 223 dies have 1.7mm recapping pins and both go into the flash hole of a piece of virgin (out of the blue box) Lapua 223 small primer holed brass

[phaedra1106uk]

The Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor are Palma brass with a smaller hole than usual.

[Andrew]

The Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor are Palma brass with a smaller hole than usual.

What was the point of that, I wonder? I am reminded of the guy who decided to change the recipe for Coca-cola back in the 70's. ~Andrew

[Hobbit]

OK so what recapping pin or die set did Lapua intend we use on our 6.5cm creedmoor brass??

 

And why does 308 Palma brass need a smaller flash hole than the 223 match brass they produce?

 

In fact - what FL resizing dies (with decap pin) do I use if I get some 308 palma brass for my TRG??

 

seems an unnecessary complication??

[gbal]

Andrew,lapua have not changed the powder recipe (though others do so)-the more appropriate analogy wiould have been a change in bottle-specifically diameter at the drinking end ("for a smoother oral taste bud experience" or cleaner shirts...or some such.... :-)

 

More seriously,Hobbit, its 'Vorsprung durch Technik"- Lapua tech engineers found that the optimum powder burn consistency came -in this case-from a slightly smaller flash hole. It may not show unless loading is pretty consistent and high standard on all components/proceedures,but it will be there-for those that wish the current best (in the CM).

 

Lapua were not just being awkward-and deprimers pins of correct size are available.

As Einstein said,god might opt to be more complex,but he is not bloody minded. And even that assumes god had some choice...which Lapua clearly had....and went for improvement...?

 

gbal

[Laurie]

What was the point of that, I wonder? I am reminded of the guy who decided to change the recipe for Coca-cola back in the 70's. ~Andrew

 

As gbal says, the small diameter flash-hole is an integral part of the small primer set-up. Drill them out (as people have done in the past) and groups and ES values increase significantly.

[Andrew]

 

As gbal says, the small diameter flash-hole is an integral part of the small primer set-up. Drill them out (as people have done in the past) and groups and ES values increase significantly.

For the sake of using their brass, you are expected to make/buy a new decapping set up? At a 50% price increase over the Hornady brass I'm using now? I get small es and single digit sd's now -and excellent grouping. I'm not seeing the attraction. A small primer pocket with a standard flash hole? Maybe.~Andrew

[Laurie]

Your choice Andrew - but you will degrade performance and change the pressure build-up behaviour. Since the objective of the Lapua form is to enhance precision and internal ballistics behaviours, you'd be better sticking with US made large primer brass I'd think.

 

Hornady brass isn't cheap in Europe and there are no supplies of once-fired examples here given the non-availability of factory ammunition until recently (not to mention it being priced at levels that would make you and your countrymen wince!), so the Lapua brass incurs a much lower premium. Given its likely life on the basis of experience with Lapua 6.5X47L and 308 Palma, its long-run price will almost certainly be lower than that of the Hornady alternative.

[Hobbit]

Laurie, gbal

 

Thanks and understood - I have not yet bought my 6.5mm dies so no drama there and I will need to think about the palma brass for 308

 

At least I won't be punching the flash holes out by mistake so thank you gentlemen

 

Cheers

 

Hobbit

[17 squirrel]

I have a Redding universal decapping kit, the pin in the small die measures 1.43mm.

[MrCetrizine]

 

Hornady brass isn't cheap in Europe

Brownells are currently selling it for less than Lapua is current going for here even with their fixed delivery cost.

 

I've bought 500 ready for my variation getting done and buying a RPR.

[bradders]

Lapua > Hornady

[MrCetrizine]

Yeah, probably but I've found that with my standard of shooting, brass is brass and cheap brass is better. Especially at the moment where it all seems to cost more per ounce than gold.

[Andrew]

Your choice Andrew - but you will degrade performance and change the pressure build-up behaviour. Since the objective of the Lapua form is to enhance precision and internal ballistics behaviours, you'd be better sticking with US made large primer brass I'd think.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at about degrading performance. I simply meant that if it was offered small primer pocket with a standard sized flash hole I might be tempted. I am pretty sure you are saying that I can't appreciate or utilize enhanced precision and internal ballistics behaviors and because of which, I should stick to the inferior large primer pocket US brass.

Sigh.

Back to the Therapist.~Andrew

[baldie]

I remember when I built a 6mmBr for myself, some years back.

 

That was in the days when I worried about stupidly meticulous brass prep.

 

I reamed the flash holes on a box of lapua 6mmbr brass, and it shot far better than un reamed. I cannot remember what size the reamed hole was, but it was definately bigger than the std flash hole.

 

I will shortly be stocking the new Lapua creedmoor brass, but the die problem is going to have to be addressed before its sold.

 

I only use redding dies personally, so its a simple fix, but what of the other die manufacturers ?

[Hobbit]

Baldie

 

That is exactly my point on the dies.

 

On the flash holes I understand (and appreciate) the points from Laurie and gbal that (all other things being equal such as uniformity - hence your reamer experience) there may be strong empirical evidence that smaller flash holes give better consistency and Lapua brass generally requires a lot less prep than most - so they had a choice as gbal said and made it towards accuracy - all good.

 

Its just that I am exactly the sort of punter that would have missed this issue without this site, bought my (probably wrong) dies and then set about wrecking the flash holes of my £1.25 a pop Lapua brass in blissful ignorance.

 

I have a 6.5CM barrel on my ticket for my shortly arriving AI AXMC and I want to use Lapua brass and 139gr scenars. Apparently to avoid dramas, based on what I have learned so far, I need to:

1, Get some dies with a small recapping pin - Redding you say? any other recommendations? after all the other money going into this I not planning to skimp here

2, Probably need magnum primers to cope with the large pin in the AI and avoid cratering - What do you guys think? - I have gone for a long action with a .308 conversion kit so I can run 300 WM and 338L in future - I suspect the pin is not a dainty needle and thick skins on the primers will be the way forward

 

any other pitfalls to avoid??

 

What powder are people using btw? I am a pretty vanilla VV N140 for 308 and 223 and Ramshot Zip for 357 pistol kind of guy but thinking of getting a long 28-30" barrel for 6.5CM unless pointless to get more MV with less wear (unless my logic is flawed here) - at the margin I would sacrifice a few 10's of fps to avoid excessive wear and fouling

 

Cheers All