.30 M1

[deadcenter]

Hi folks,

 

Looking for an M1 carbine and was wondering if any of the professionals on here are able to produce a straight pull one or know of any sources.

 

ITL had them but are having trouble finding receivers now.

 

Found a place in northern Ireland that have straight pulls on the shelf, but these are made from section 5 rifles so no go.

I assume they can't have semi auto rifles over there apart from .22RF like us, but are allowed section 5 firearms so they can do this. Anyway, doesn't help me any.

 

Any help or advice appreciated.

 

Ian.

[bradders]

Hi folks,

 

Looking for an M1 carbine and was wondering if any of the professionals on here are able to produce a straight pull one or know of any sources.

 

ITL had them but are having trouble finding receivers now.

 

Found a place in northern Ireland that have straight pulls on the shelf, but these are made from section 5 rifles so no go.

I assume they can't have semi auto rifles over there apart from .22RF like us, but are allowed section 5 firearms so they can do this. Anyway, doesn't help me any.

 

Any help or advice appreciated.

 

Ian.

 

 

N Ireland still has pre 1997 firearms laws, so handguns there are still S1

S5 however is the same as here

Back in the early-mid 70s when I lived there, I think I remember the RUC carrying M1 Carbines

As far as getting a new one here, I think that's pretty much a non starter

[pengo]

Hi folks,

 

Looking for an M1 carbine and was wondering if any of the professionals on here are able to produce a straight pull one or know of any sources.

 

ITL had them but are having trouble finding receivers now.

 

Found a place in northern Ireland that have straight pulls on the shelf, but these are made from section 5 rifles so no go.

I assume they can't have semi auto rifles over there apart from .22RF like us, but are allowed section 5 firearms so they can do this. Anyway, doesn't help me any.

 

Any help or advice appreciated.

 

Ian.

Hi Ian,

 

You could always try Peter Sarony to see if he has any, but I wouldn't bank on it too much, but you never know....

http://www.armalon.com/public/products/item/8/

 

If you wanted to try ring Wentworth Sporting Supplies in Nottingham (or have a nip down, as it's not far from you and they do a mean bacon baguette!!!) they are advertising an AL42 for sale.

http://www.wentworth-sporting.com/shop/Firearms/Centre-fire-Target-and-Tactical-Rifles/Armalon-AL42-Rifle---S/H-Reduced/1026

 

Hope this might help.

 

I must admit, I wish I'd never sold my Armalon .30 M1 carbine....

 

Good luck

Paul

[bradders]

 

I must admit, I wish I'd never sold my Armalon .30 M1 carbine....

 

Good luck

Paul

 

That is an Enfield in .30 Carbine, not an M1

[deadcenter]

Thanks for the info Paul, but it's an M1 I'm after.

 

Talked to ITL again, he has one in the works but it's expensive. Might go down this route. 1940's receiver, wood and other parts, new barrel obviously.

 

We'll see.

[pengo]

Thanks for the info Paul, but it's an M1 I'm after.

 

Talked to ITL again, he has one in the works but it's expensive. Might go down this route. 1940's receiver, wood and other parts, new barrel obviously.

 

We'll see.

No worries.

 

I hope you get sorted. Maybe a trip to the shootingshow might be of help.

 

Cheers

Paul

[AJW7088]

Hello,

 

In relation to the firearms mentioned in Northern Ireland, I think that whilst Article 45 of the relevant order prohibits similar firearms as elsewhere in the U.K., s7 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 does not apply. This means that the restriction on conversion of prohibited weapons to ones capable of lawful possession through a firearm certificate there does not have effect.

 

If anyone knows otherwise then I would appreciate being set right.

 

Thanks,

 

Adrian

[Grum87]

Hello,

 

In relation to the firearms mentioned in Northern Ireland, I think that whilst Article 45 of the relevant order prohibits similar firearms as elsewhere in the U.K., s7 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 does not apply. This means that the restriction on conversion of prohibited weapons to ones capable of lawful possession through a firearm certificate there does not have effect.

 

If anyone knows otherwise then I would appreciate being set right.

 

Thanks,

 

Adrian

 

 

Firearms on a S7 are still Sec5?

 

Conversion of sec5 stuff in the UK is an absolute non starter. Ask Mr Anthony Buckland, doing 6 years behind bars for it.

 

I had one of his SVT40's that'd been converted from an original sec5 rifle. It'd had the barrel chopped back beyond the gas block, a smooth bore extension fitted, the front end rebuilt, totally in-operable gasblock, no gas parts, no op rod, op rod hole on the receiver welded over, it was complete and utterly a straight pull in operation. It was lovely, but locked itself solid on firing, due to a tilting bolt design that really needed brute force from a gas driven op rod to function well, much like SLR's.

 

IIRC from the charge list he made either 17, or 24 rifles converted from Sec5 semi autos, SVT40's and SKS's, and every one of them was taken by Norfolk's plod, mine included.

 

My understanding is that there are two routes to achieve rifles like these, legally - build it from component parts, with a new barrel. Or import it from the EU pre-butchered - M1garand.co.uk(oakrise firearms) offered a pile of rifles from LuxDefense(butchered East German AK's, M76 AK/SVD variants, amongst others) that were exactly that, the SVT40 included(and still do offer it, subject to getting them to work reliably). How do I know they weren't built with new barrels, the same way we do it? Simple, SVT40 receivers will warp, or even break before you get a barrel off them.

[AJW7088]

Hello,

 

I was referring to s7 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 rather than s7 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 (which is the section relating to firearms of historic interest). The section in the 1988 Act is the one that relates to s5 items retaining that categorisation even if converted to s1 compliant configuration.

 

My query was whether the 1988 Act applies in NI. If it doesn't then that may explain why the RFD mentioned in NI may be able to sell converted M1 carbines. As another contributor indicated, the law has different application in different areas of the UK.

 

I hope that helps clarify my query.

 

Thanks,

 

Adrian

[Andrew]

Not to hijack, but if you do buid a rifle in an M1 Carbine receiver, consider the 5.7 Johnson Spitfire chambering. I built a couple of them back in the 80's. Great performance. Johnsonm Arms once offered rifles and kits. Many went to South America where they were popular.~Andrew

[gbal]

22 Johnson Spitfire (5.7MM Johnson). 30 Carbine necked to 22- for the Johnson M1 carbine.

(40g@2850/3000 720/790ft lb;50g@2750 810 ftlb).

 

Andrew,is ammo for the Spitfire still reasonable available in US?

 

gbal

[6.5Grendel]

Firearms on a S7 are still Sec5?

 

Conversion of sec5 stuff in the UK is an absolute non starter. Ask Mr Anthony Buckland, doing 6 years behind bars for it.

 

I had one of his SVT40's that'd been converted from an original sec5 rifle. It'd had the barrel chopped back beyond the gas block, a smooth bore extension fitted, the front end rebuilt, totally in-operable gasblock, no gas parts, no op rod, op rod hole on the receiver welded over, it was complete and utterly a straight pull in operation. It was lovely, but locked itself solid on firing, due to a tilting bolt design that really needed brute force from a gas driven op rod to function well, much like SLR's.

 

IIRC from the charge list he made either 17, or 24 rifles converted from Sec5 semi autos, SVT40's and SKS's, and every one of them was taken by Norfolk's plod, mine included.

 

My understanding is that there are two routes to achieve rifles like these, legally - build it from component parts, with a new barrel. Or import it from the EU pre-butchered - M1garand.co.uk(oakrise firearms) offered a pile of rifles from LuxDefense(butchered East German AK's, M76 AK/SVD variants, amongst others) that were exactly that, the SVT40 included(and still do offer it, subject to getting them to work reliably). How do I know they weren't built with new barrels, the same way we do it? Simple, SVT40 receivers will warp, or even break before you get a barrel off them.

So if an S5 firearm is converted to straight pull in another country can it be imported for S1 use here?

I ask as I have seen a BAR which has been converted to Straight pull in South Africa(I believe) and imported here, currently sitting on his certificate here and being used at one of my clubs. Accuracy was iffy but great to watch a 30-06 firing from an open bolt

Can't help thinking it's a bit of a grey area though?

[Grum87]

So if an S5 firearm is converted to straight pull in another country can it be imported for S1 use here?

I ask as I have seen a BAR which has been converted to Straight pull in South Africa(I believe) and imported here, currently sitting on his certificate here and being used at one of my clubs. Accuracy was iffy but great to watch a 30-06 firing from an open bolt

Can't help thinking it's a bit of a grey area though?

I suspect it is, and I wouldn't like the be the RFD risking my liberty to test it. But Oakrise did(do?) exactly that.

 

My understanding is that it was never a sec5 in the UK as it entered the UK as a sec1, however if it arrived in the UK fully functioning, and is then castrated, it was once sec5, and always sec5 in the eyes of the law, even if not in function.

 

Might be way off the mark, but that's my understanding of it. From experience, big milsurp chambered rifles converted to straight pull suck balls functionally anyway

[6.5Grendel]

I suspect it is, and I wouldn't like the be the RFD risking my liberty to test it. But Oakrise did(do?) exactly that.

 

My understanding is that it was never a sec5 in the UK as it entered the UK as a sec1, however if it arrived in the UK fully functioning, and is then castrated, it was once sec5, and always sec5 in the eyes of the law, even if not in function.

 

Might be way off the mark, but that's my understanding of it. From experience, big milsurp chambered rifles converted to straight pull suck balls functionally anyway

IT may have been the shooter but 12moa at 100yds didn't impress. Great to see though.

Not sure that I'd like to risk it , I was worried enough when Suffolk rifles went under that the authorities would come for my Garand

[AJW7088]

Hello,

 

The the question about a conversion taking place from s5 to s1 outside U.K. Jurisdiction and then the subsequent categorisation in U.K. is currently considered (by the HO and CPS) to be contrary to the provisions of s7 Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988. That means the conversion remains s5.

 

However the inconsistency is that the Firearms Act 1968 and its subsequent amendments do not automatically apply across the UK. Although not exact, it is better to think of them applying to GB (ie not including Northern Ireland). In NI the provisions of the Firearms Act 1968 are mostly brought into effect by the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004. Although this closely follows the 1968 Act not all provisions are included. This means, for example, that small firearms are not prohibited there, as they are in GB. I also think that the s7 provision above does not apply, meaning that in NI (but not in GB) it is lawful to possess a s5 conversion to s1 controls. That is what I was trying to confirm. I appreciate I am now rather off the original topic so will continue this elsewhere!

 

Whatever the arrangement in NI, it still doesn't mean a s5 to s1 conversion (if if undertaken in NI or abroad) can lawfully be possessed in GB. The law is different across the U.K.

 

Thanks,

 

Adrian

[Andrew]

22 Johnson Spitfire (5.7MM Johnson). 30 Carbine necked to 22- for the Johnson M1 carbine.

(40g@2850/3000 720/790ft lb;50g@2750 810 ftlb).

 

Andrew,is ammo for the Spitfire still reasonable available in US?

 

gbal

No. Its been gone for some time but 30 Carbine cases size to 5.7 JS in a single pass. No neck turning. Just form and shoot.~Andrew

[gbal]

Thanks,Andrew...the Spifire was a rarity here-probably because there were very few new Johnson's imported;but plenty of cheaper issued M1 30 carbines.

Handy for owners,thar the case resize is relatively easy,but we won't see any here (for legal reasons).

 

g

[deadcenter]

Wow, this topic got awful popular.

 

I've gone down the ITL route. He sources receivers abroad and the firearm is made up with a new barell to conform to section 1, then imported and proofed.

 

This is what I have been told. No doubt there are other things that have to go on, but I didn't ask for evey detail, just that these are home office approved.

 

The guy in Ireland told me that section 5 conversions to section 1 were legal but he could not export to the UK due to the fact that they were not manufactured overseas as section 1. He said he gets of lot of requests for the import of these firearms into the UK.

Now this does seem grey, seems odd that a place with the troubles of Northern Ireland held on to their handguns in the first place.

 

Oh well, I'm sure that the powers that be know exactly what they're doing !!! Trouble is, I don't think it's in our interest.

 

Anyway, look forward to getting the rifle. Anyone got any .30 Carbine brass from back when that they want to part with.

[deadcenter]

Yeah, this is the guy I spoke to on the phone.

Converted from section 5. He can't export them to the Mainland UK.