Jump to content
UKV - The Place for Precision Rifle Enthusiasts
Sign in to follow this  
njc110381

.22-250 or .220 Swift? Positives and negatives for both?

Recommended Posts

Hi guys.

 

My gunsmith has got a nice little Sako action in that will work nicely with these two rounds, or something similar. I'm thinking of making use of it. Having looked at both there is't much in it, but there seem to be two clear camps that prefer one or the other. So what's in it? The .220 looks a bit faster assuming all other variables are the same.

 

I would go with a 1-9 twist to allow slightly heavier bullets. I've opted out of wildcats for now because I'm lazy and it would be nice to be able to just buy some brass when needed!

 

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to stay with the .22 I think. If nothing else it stops me from having to carry a deer out when I'm supposed to be bashing bunnies! :blush:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love my .220 swift, only thing that might stop me getting it rebarreled as a swift again would be the rimmed cases, can be a bit of a pain if you don't stack them properly in the magazine and you get the top round stuck on the one bellow.

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was leaning towards the Swift until I read about that. Sounds annoying! So far the .22-250 with a quicker twist sounds promising. I'm just not sure.

 

It had been my intention to build a 6x45 next. This action has got me thinking, but I'm not sure it's the direction I want to go in if I'm honest. The 6x45 still wouldn't be deer legal so is ok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't let it put you off tho, I reload for my headkeeper's and under keepers 22-250 and they are a lot more finicky than my swift, his Ruger no.1 will only shoot 40 grainers and the under keepers savage would only shoot 50 grainers, believe me I'v messed around with them plenty! My swift shoots 40-55gn with a varierity of combinations superbly, got the thermal on it and with 52gn berger varmints it's point and shoot to 300m. I have not had much problem with case trimming using Norma brass. Another option would be a 22-243, heard a lot of good stuff about it and not too much brass prep?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had looked at the .22-243. Do you know if the necks need to be turned? I suspect they do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a 22/250 Ackley, as much case capacity if not more than the swift and you can still use 22/250 factory ammo as fireforming loads with generally good accuracy. My (preloved) rifle will still shoot bug holes with bullets from the 75g Amax to the 55g Blitzking. The 1:8 twist is lost on me as I use the rifle for NV only so all shots are sub 250 yards. I wouldn't judge the 22/250 on the basis of secondhand information from a Ruger number 1 (notoriously unreliable) and a savage ( dubious build quality in my opinion). I have found the standard 22/250 and the Ackley to be really easy to work up good loads for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi , I've used a 220 swift for over ten years now and several barrels which kind of tells you my feelings . I've always used Norma brass and whilst mine is on a tight neck It doesn't have to be just get a reamer to suit . I've had no issues with brass trimming with Norma but let me say the 220 swift will not kill anything any better than a 22-250 will and the extra 100 or 150 ft/sec is nothing in drop over normal distances . Know your rifle and distances and either will work well .

I have a 6mm WSM which pushes a 55g Nosler at over 4,500 ft/sec but when i go out the swift is what goes with me as i know it so well .

My advice on both the 22-243 and the 22-250 Ackley for small fast bullets would be to avoid them as fire forming is required and the gain is worth very little at normal distances .

If on the other hand you like giving yourself extra work for little gain and wildcats float your boat as they do me then go for it ....... But you have been warned :D

 

OSOK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I have used 22-250 for 30 years and swift for 20,either will kill consistently out to 250 yards.If you reload there is nothing between the two but factory ammo for the swift is very dear and theres not much choice.I reload for both with no problems.Choose one calibre and enjoy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In performance terms (small varmints) both the 220 Swift and 22/250 Rem are fine 3-400 yard cartridges,with very little between them. The person who has shooting experience of one will hardly be surprised or diisappointed shooting the other.

 

Much was made of (and made up about) the Swift when introduced in 1935,and the "22Varminter" of around the same date,legitimised as 22/250Rem in 1965-by which time the earlier claims and criticisms had been tried,tested and largely rejected (or it was realised they were generic to super fast 22 cartridges).We are talking nowadays about SAAMI ammo 55g at around 3700 fps for the 22/250,and maybe 30 fps more for the Swift. There are about 30 US available 22/250 loadings,and a dozen or so Swift loads.

Most major rifle manufacturers still offer the 22/250, the Swift is much less available.

Nothing much in it for accuracy-allowing for fair comparisons (not eg factory-custom)-Jim Carmichel once checked all the factory test cards for a complete production run (I think,Rugers) identical except for chambering,and found little consistent differences-probably it's an individual rifle thing-but half to 3/4 moa was ball park. That's a pretty decently large sample.

 

With so many loading available (and a few euro ones to add) performance data obviously varies a bit,but a fair case can be made for the conclusion that it matters relatively little a small BC or fps hardly impacts much-field performance will be virtually indistinguishable between the two cartridges: for example, 300y drop/drift" 10 mph wind,retained energy; 24"barrel :

 

220 Swift 55g Norma Oryx BC .185 @ 3733fps 5.9/13.2 594 ft lb

22/250 same bullet @ 3609 6.6/14 534

 

220Swift 40 Vmax BC.200 @4200 4.3/10.5 601

22/250 same bullet @4150 4.5/10.6 585

 

Excellent,but essentially indistinguishable,performance-and individual rifles will simple add to that equivalence.

 

The issue with ultra fast cartidges is not so much MV (despite it's apparent brag value) but retained velocity;that is much more elusive,being a function of sectional density,and BC (beyond the reloaders manipulations-buy different bullets-or much better yet,a different chambering.)

 

Essentially,that's what keeps the Swift and 22/250 near/at the practical top-the 22/250 especially being a world class cartrridge-ie readily obtainable in most plausible places.Wildcats have focussed on heavier better BC bullets-though of course these are now readily available for the Swift and 22/250. You won't come across many CHeatahs (308 necked to 22,and using early small primer Rem BR brass;if fortunate,the splendid 22 Middlestead (243 necked)-let alone the more exotic 224 Clark (257 or 7x57 necked).A few persist,and why not..but things change...the advent of 55g 243 bullets transforms the regular 243w-go compare:

 

Win 55g Ball S'tip BC .276 @ 3910 4.3/8.2 934 easily into the club (and can take the real heavies better).

 

But the 6mm has always been ballistically better ..just as good 6.5s challenge 6mms....another story.

 

OK,the wildcats have not much worthwhile to add ballistically/performance wise for effective varminting in UK.They just challenge and sometimes satisfy,a few aficionados(which helps us all,either way!)

If we exclude the 243w (and 6BR and 6PPC) on calibre grounds and the excellent 22BR and 22 PPC and a small class of "semi " wildcats,(not "off the shelf"), we have a choice : Swift or 22/250.

 

Rifle choice and availability,likewise ammo,may well be decisive,but it's an individual choice,and not one that can be made by strictly performance factors.It's subjective,and none the worse for that. A fine,nice choice indeed!

Perhaps choose your rifle,and take whichever of these two excellent class leading cartridges is available,with 22/250 the easy default option.

 

gbal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks chaps. That's a bit to take in. I may have to read through it again as it's late and I've had a couple of glasses of brandy!

 

I'm not opposed to wildcats. In fact I quite like them as long as they're not too much work to get loaded. I've had a .17 Ackley Hornet in the past and currently run an 8x60R Magnum drilling too - brass for that is a giggle I can tell you!

 

One last question, as my decision has pretty much been made. If I was to Ackley a .22-250, would that have any negative influence on the way it feeds from a magazine? Chambering matters very little - I have a Sako Forester action complete with magazine kit that will be having a barrel of some sort shoved on it. I believe that the .220, .22-250 or .22-250AI will all fit that action and bolt face so there is nothing in it. The only real decider is brass availability and the .22-250 seems to win that. Either Ackley or standard makes no odds, so it's down to the feeding from a magazine to decide. If there's nothing in that I'll have the Ackley, just because it's a little different without creating work beyond what I can be bothered with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 22.250 does NOT give anything up to the swift on velocity - the two cals are indistinguishable on performance with todays powders.

 

Opting for a tighter twist barrel in either calibre is a win / win situation IME.. Having owned both standard (14 twist) 22.250 's and two rifles with tight twist barrels fitted.(8 & 9 twist barrels)

 

An 8 or 9 twist would allow you to fire much better BC bullets, and still have the ability to shoot 50 grn pills if you so wish.

 

Personally, I would give the Ackley version a big miss - been there - done it :unsure: The benefits of a few extra measly FPS was definitely NOT worth the trouble.

 

It was an itch I wanted to scratch - but never again.

 

 

ATB

S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I currently have a 22/250 Ackley in the cabinet and like it a lot, however it will be rebarreled as a standard 22/250 when the time comes. The main reason for this is that the feed from the mag can be a bit temperamental with the bolt needing a bit of a jiggle most times. I would agree it was an itch that needed scratching!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All noted, thanks guys!

 

It's amazing how easy it is to make a decision when you have a team of experienced shooters to go to for advice. With the sticky rim issue of the .220 and the tricky feeding of the Ackley I reckon a standard .22-250 is the way forward.

 

Increasing the twist a little over what is standard sounds like a plan but not by too much. I'm thinking 1:9 as I'd still like to be able to use bullets down near the 50-55gr range. At what point does a standard 12 or 14 twist give up? I'm thinking around the 50-60gr mark? With the added force on the bullet I'm guessing a 9 would cause issues with the really light bullets, but I wouldn't use them anyway. I'll have a .17 Rem to do light and fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alternatively be different and have a Swift

 

No problem for me getting brass or factory

Norma cases hardly need trimming

Shoot up to 60gr Sierras with a standard twist

 

and it's not a .22-250..............

 

really though there's not much in it.....apart from the mystery that is.................

 

(all meant in 'the best possible taste')

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want smooth feeding. From what I've seen here the .22-250 will feed more reliably than the .220 Swift. On a rifle that will be used in the dark for foxing, possibly needing a fast follow up shot, that is essential.

 

You can be pretty certain that if it's going to play up it will do it right at that moment when you need it to be flawless!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi njc

 

Having read the thread through I think that to be fair only 1 person (?) has mentioned problems with feeding.

However I hope that whatever you choose it will give you everything you wish for. Good Luck

 

LW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feeding hasn't been a big subject here, but when Ben brought it up I did take it upon myself to have a quick Google to see what came up. There are plenty of people around the world having issues with feeding. Of course that could be said about any calibre, but the Swift does get a number of mentions where the semi rim is shallow enough to let itself jump over the rim of the next round and get stuck.

 

I'm just being a perfectionist really. I love unusual rounds and hate to go with the flow, but at the end of the day reliability is important to me on this one. Having people who really love the calibre admitting that it can be a problem makes me think that it's one to avoid. My smith also suggested doing an Ackley chamber but again, the sharper shoulder seems to bring in reports that it can jam up sometimes. I just don't want that.

 

It's all well and good getting an extra 200fps out of your bullet, but if that round won't hurry up and get in the chamber when I have an "oh s***" moment, then that extra speed isn't of much use! It's a shame because the Swift sounds interesting, but for me it's not worth risking losing a fox because that case looks more appealing or is rarer than another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

njc,entirely agree-it's unlikely anyone would introduce a semi rim if perfect magazine feeding were the crterion-and there are as you say users who have reported issues(we assume thay are no more Klutz than normal.

 

I'd not fret about the extra 150+ fps you might have squeezed from (an evenles smooth feeding?) Ackley verson.

For any use to which the Swift should be put (varminting,4-500y limits) the extra velocity is barely noticeably ballistically,and certainly is not a game changer vis a vis the 22/250 (and ditto to Ackley -unless absolute parity with Swift velocity is essential....as a subjective).

 

"If you didn't get it with the 22/250,you would not have gotten it with the Swift"......and vice versa! :-)

 

gbal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no experience of the 220 Swift, so you can file this under "keyboard expert" if you like, but an awful lot of British and Commonwealth troops did OK with a rimmed 303 round and managed it in what could be described as a high pressure environment.

 

David.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi njc

 

Ben already has a solution to his feed problems (which incidentally don't seem to affect rounds 1& 2, only subsequent ones) http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/36758-two-round-holder/ (see post #8) so that second shot isn't a problem.

 

Often I single feed my rifles anyway, but that is sometimes to do with those darn VLD's just not going up the ramp :blink: . Herewith we enter the great single shot vs repeater debate of 'time to get a second cartridge to battery'.

 

But then my fantasy is a modified Fraser action in .25-06..........................................oh, and 10 miles of Glen to call my own..... sigh................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been decided. I'm now (or will be once my variation comes through) the proud owner of a Stainless Sako 75 in .22-250. For now it just has my name on it, but I'm happy with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a 220 swift owner , I love mine very accurate but to get the very best out of the swift in speed you need a 26 ins barrel , , I have a ruger no 1 single shot semi custom , you will find it harder to source factory ammo , cases are easy to source, I use 52 Berger under h380 , with mag primers, now 22-250 has a advantage in being a lot more popular and more factory rounds and rifles, if want something different go for the swift, when I come to rebarrel mine I use a 1-8 twist and make use of the 80 a max , at this moment I used a 60 grn bullet with h414 in a 1-14 twist with great accuracy , I like both 220 swift and 22-250 I don't think the foxes will know any difference, if you want a custom how about a 220 swift ai best of luck with your choice atvb steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

RifleMags_200x100.jpg

Northallerton NSAC shooting.jpg

border_ballistics_UKV_ad.jpg

dolphin button4 (200x100).jpg

CASEPREP_FINAL_YELLOW_hi_res__200_.jpg

rovicom200.jpg

BHTargets200.jpg

Lumensmini.png

CALTON MOOR RANGE (2) (200x135).jpg

bradley1 200.jpg

NVstore200.jpg

Danny Trowsdale 200.png

safeshot 200.jpg

tacfire 200.jpg

blackrifle.png

jr_firearms_200.gif

valkyrie 200.jpg

tab 200.jpg

 

 



×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy