Calibre Advice

[Sherlock]

Drops and drift of various cals that I have owned. Each one at 300 yrds and in 10 mph full value wind

 

 

22.250 - 75 grn Amax ( Bc 0.435 ) - Velocity 3350 fps - Drop 7.5" Drift 5.4 - impact energy 1204 ftlb

22.250 - 53 grn Vmax ( Bc 0.290) - Velocity 3850 fps - Drop 5.6" Drift 7.3 - impact energy 913 ftlb

 

243 - 87 grn Vmax ( Bc 0.400) - Velocity 3250 fps - Drop 8.8" Drift 6.4 - impact energy 1215 ftlb

243 - 105 grn Amax ( Bc 0.5 ) - Velocity 3000 fps - Drop 10.0" Drift 5.5 - impact energy 1412 ftlb

 

17 rem - 25 grn Vmax ( BC 0.225) Velocity 4050 fps - Drop 5.5" Drift 9.3 - impact energy 396 ftlb

204 R - 39 grn SKB ( BC 0.250) - Velocity 3700 fps - Drop 6.9" Drift 9.1 - impact energy 552 ftlb

 

6.5 CM - 123 grn AM ( BC 0.5) - Velocity 3000 fps - Drop 10.0" Drift 5.5 - impact energy 1654 ftlb

[Biathlonjimmy]

Duplicate

[Biathlonjimmy]

My .22-250 is zeroed at 200yds. It is pushing a 52gr Amax (bc 0.247) at 4050fps

 

As can be seen from the above table, elevation out to 250yds is point and shoot for foxes. The wind drift however needs to be taken into account. 300 under lamp looks so far away compared to daytime. Plenty of energy at 300 especially with the frangibility of the Amax

[Biathlonjimmy]

re the above

[gbal]

B'jimmy:Thanks for this well presented data from real firing (I assume 10 mph wind).No doubt it works!

 

What is worth a moments thought is a comparison with Saami ammo at 300y:

 

Nosler 50g BT BC .238 @ 3850 fps : drop/drift 4.8/9 inches;730 ft lbs and 2563 fps

 

Despite a lower BC and 200fps less MV, there is only about a half inch in it.

 

I'm not saying don't run a (very) hot load,but be aware of the diminishing returns......it's approaching asymptote (more gives nowt!)

 

(that does NOT always extend to higher energy levels when large prey are involved,though bullet placement retains priority.)

 

gbal

[Cowsmart]

just about to buy a 1:9 twist 22-250 and looking forward to pushing the bounderies lol, but my go to foxing gun at the moment is my trusted Abolt in .270 with 110gr Vmax....set at 1" high at 100 yards its point and shoot to best part of 250. On a plus side if on the way home at day light and a freezer filler shows up its just a change to 130gr sst which suprisingly just shoots 1" higher at 100 yards than the lighter Vmax. Can't wait to get the new 22-250 though, just need to sell my old 22-250 to make a slot. regards Lee

[gbal]

Lee: yep,your real world behaves as per the laws of physics; (10 mph wind) d/d inches:

 

270 110g Barnes TShock BC.380 @3400 100y 1/.7; 200y 0/2.8; 300y 5.3/6.4

 

270 130g SST BC.460 @ 2900 !00y 1.6/.7; 200 0/2.7; 300g 6.9/6.3

 

within rifle /load variations etc.

 

As you'll know, 52g 22/250 drifts half as much again,near enough.

 

A man needs/ 'has good reason' for both,if you need an expert witness (don't mention shoes,handbags,unless you have bought gucci). :-)

 

g

[Chanonry]

Simply put - you don't have time to F ek around range finding and dialling in on fox -- especially by lamp. They are often on the move and might stop and give you a couple of second to get the shot away. .

 

 

The last thing you want for foxing is a rainbow trajectory and having to dial in on a fox that is moving away or appears unexpectedly.

My advice is keep the bullets trajectory flat and use a bullet with good ballistics ( but not at the expense of too much velocity) .

 

 

Exactly, there is more than one way to shoot. Set up a rig to suit the circumstances that are likely to arise.

 

Ranging and dialling has its advantages and is a big improvement in circumstances when there is enough time - it removes the biggest impacting variable i.e. range so then the issue is to minimise wind error => high bc bullets please.

 

With little time the biggest error is range hence the benefits of a flat calibre. Max range becomes a bit limited but at night it is not an issue.

 

Just because we have advanced our craft (post LRF's) in some ways does not mean that the traditional approaches have no value. Says the guy that ranges and dials !!

[VarmLR]

double post.

[VarmLR]

A bog standard .243 or .308 will do the job perfectly well. For accuracy, either are capable of real world 2 inch group accuracy at 300 yds. I'd happily use either, zero'd for 200, then work your bullet drops for a specific load. I tend to prefer heavy and slow when shooting deer, but the advantages of doing the same for fox, in windy conditions, is the (usually) heavier pills have higher BC = less wind deflection. I can't for the life of me understand why people are recommending the likes of 300 magnum rounds for fox at sub 300 yds....it's a fox, not a heffalump and the bog standard factory cals are relatively cheap to feed, easy to find or make ammo up for and will serve you well. There's a modern tendency to disregard anything that doesn't provide mega velocities these days. The guy behind the rifle matters far more than the rifle. I'd happily pick up any .243 or .308 for that purpose. You don't need to dial. Just use a scope that is clearly marked for holdover between 200 and 300 yds, point and shoot. I use my .308 this way with a FFP mildot scope and it's as quick to point and shoot as with any laser flat round.

[Swarovski1]

243 is as good as any others mentioned.loaded with a 55gr nos bal tip will do 4000 fps and shoot flat as a witches t i t and buck the wind ok out to 300yds

[Matt234]

Another vote for the 260rem as long as you hand load my personal fox choice is the 100gr A-Max I've used this for a couple of years 300 metres no problems.

[Alycidon]

My choice of ultimate foxing calibre would be a 20BR firing the 55gr Berger, you should get to about 3550 fps with a 24" barrel.

 

 

That would be a very hot load. Another 3 inches of barrel would allow the load to be backed down a bit without loosing speed. I am running a fitted neck 20BR with a 27" tube and 3500 is about as fast as I can get with 50s before pressure signs start to show. But put one in charlies boiler room and down he goes irrespective of distance. For most closer stuff I tend to use 39gr SBK even though the rifle is set up for 50s. Furtherest fox with a 39 is a few yards short of 300, front on bib shot, I did get 2 cubs with one shot this spring with a 39, pure accident, one ran behind the other and collected the exiting bullet in the neck, 2 instant kills. I find 39s a shade more disruptive than Bergers especially on feathered vermin, downloaded to 3500.

 

Given that a build off the 308 case is likely then 260 is my choice followed by 244 ( 6mm Rem). Nothing wrong with 20BR but a big bullet will anchor something when not quite hit properly better than a small one will and the resale value of a 20BR will be zero near enough as its so specialised unless its sold here.

 

A

[Leezie]

I've shot most calibres mentioned so far in this thread and in my opinion, many suggestions given to you on here are good ones.

 

I've just re-read your original specs for your requirements and to be honest, for what you're looking for, I'd say stay with the .243, but use 90-grainers.

 

I've lost count of how many foxes I've shot (I do it for a living) I shoot urban foxes with the good old .22 Subsonic rimfire and have never had a "runner". I used to use a barrel-burning .22-250 out in the sticks, which was great! I went back to the .243 after wearing out the second barrel on the .22-250 and then sold the .243 for a .308 due to me getting some larger deer work.

 

I still have and use the .308 on foxes and deer, but the rifle that I use most on everything is my 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

Just about anything you use on that platform of yours will do the job you want.

 

It's very easy to get lured away from your original requirement if you start listening to people on forums (including myself). Focus on what your needs are and read all of the comments / advice and then research the calibre that you choose in detail before committing to a purchase.

 

My 6.5 Creedmoor is everything I want and need. Bucks the wind brilliantly, shoots as flatly as I need and hits like a hammer. Bullets are easy to get hold of, it's cheap to run and not a barrel-burner.

 

However, in the early days, I had a nightmare getting hold of brass and decent reloading dies.

 

I now make my own brass by reforming .308 and .243 brass and have decent dies. I don't see me ever straying away from the Creedmoor.

 

Good luck and have fun.

 

Lee.

[gunner]

I cant believe no one has suggested 6mmBR, the perfect Foxing round, just load up with 87grn V-Max and off you go, easily good for 500yds with supreme accuracy.

 

Ian.

I was thinking it ! but pushing a 55grain SBKing but after 300 in bad winds etc it may struggle be too much error . You can't really have the best of both worlds , i think you just gotta be realistic and 300 yard fox at nite is pretty far , id wanna know 100% its charlie. A few are springing to mind 6mmx47 - 22/250 / 69 tmk , 6/55sweede , 6x284 , 22br etc , out of them i think the 6x284 would ace the other 6s trajectory wise , bullet wise itd probably need something between 80-105 grainers soo many decision