SnipersHide Cup 2017

[bradders]

I spoke to him, in outline a few years back, after the coup. I was hoping to find different thinking yo that of the deposed former el-presidente. I don't remember getting any impression of procative interest in a comp at all. I have to say, given my WMS experience on the same site, with no comp 'incentive' reducing costs for multiple competitors, I'd rather pay £xxx to shoot with a small group of known friends, than pay the same to totally bend myself out of shape to organise everything, generate sufficient people and income to enable a the site owner to buy a small car on the back of my effort. But that's me, and why I haven't organised another in the last 5 years. For reasons I've never fully grasped, comps simply aren't (or certainly, weren't - this was years ago) of interest.

Tiff is the turnkey solution.

 

Well I've just spoken to him outlining an idea for an event for around 40 people in squads of 8 or so for late spring/early summer and he's very agreeable.

We even discussed FAC conditions, but I think a range recce would be in order.

 

 

Unlike many others, I enjoy organising shoots

[brown dog]

Well I've just spoken to him outlining an idea for an event for around 40 people in squads of 8 or so for late spring/early summer and he's very agreeable.

We even discussed FAC conditions, but I think a range recce would be in order.

 

 

Unlike many others, I enjoy organising shoots

Great. Any pricing incentives likely, or still everyone paying full whack, despite being mob-handed?

[bradders]

Great. Any pricing incentives likely, or still everyone paying full whack, despite being mob-handed?

 

Didn't discuss, said we would leave that aspect until another time

 

All I do kn ow right now is that it's£132/day PP for groups of 3 and 8 shoot for the cost of 7, which is £115 if split, so I can't see why on a booking of 40 it couldn't be around £90-100 each

[tackb]

 

Didn't discuss, said we would leave that aspect until another time

 

All I do kn ow right now is that it's£132/day PP for groups of 3 and 8 shoot for the cost of 7, which is £115 if split, so I can't see why on a booking of 40 it couldn't be around £90-100 each

 

I'd be happy at that pricing for a full days challenging shooting

[Brushy]

 

I'd be happy at that pricing for a full days challenging shooting

Too right - 100 quid for a days shooting of circa 100 rounds would be reasonable

[tackb]

Too right - 100 quid for a days shooting of circa 100 rounds would be reasonable

 

a weekend would be better , all day Saturday then half day sunday to allow people to get home in a reasonable time?

[terryh]

but I think a range recce would be in order. -think this is essential?

 

 

Unlike many others, I enjoy organising shoots - you fool you!

 

Mark,

 

Have at it!

 

T

[Sapper811]

As far as RBL 'Type' shoots go all I would say is that I would hope a similar event at Diggle, so very close the 'RBL' Match, does not reduce entry numbers at either event.

John

 

I have a feeling if anything there will be more Diggle CSR shooters for the RBL this year as i am already talking to some to form a team / teams

[brown dog]

Didn't discuss, said we would leave that aspect until another time

 

All I do kn ow right now is that it's£132/day PP for groups of 3 and 8 shoot for the cost of 7, which is £115 if split, so I can't see why on a booking of 40 it couldn't be around £90-100 each

My experience was that the equivalent to the 7 for 8 price was as low as it went, regardless of whether you took 8 or 800.

If that's changed: Yup, have at!

[bradders]

 

Mark,

 

Have at it!

 

T

 

 

How else do you plan something out if you have no idea of the lie of the land?

 

Captains of industry my arse!

[bradders]

 

Mark,

 

Have at it!

 

T

 

 

How else do you plan something out if you have no idea of the lie of the land?

 

Captains of industry my arse!

 

John

 

I have a feeling if anything there will be more Diggle CSR shooters for the RBL this year as i am already talking to some to form a team / teams

Diggle and Team are two words that rarely go together in my experience....unless it's a team of individuals

[bradders]

 

Mark,

 

Have at it!

 

T

 

 

How else do you plan something out if you have no idea of the lie of the land?

 

Captains of industry my arse!

 

John

 

I have a feeling if anything there will be more Diggle CSR shooters for the RBL this year as i am already talking to some to form a team / teams

Diggle and Team are two words that rarely go together in my experience....unless it's a team of individuals

 

Too right - 100 quid for a days shooting of circa 100 rounds would be reasonable

Hang on a minute, I thought you were going to organise something?

[Brushy]

 

 

Hang on a minute, I thought you were going to organise something?

I think you volunteered me - rather than me volunteering

[bradders]

I think you volunteered me - rather than me volunteering

 

I did, but as I realise that the fear factor would creep in, I made my own moves

[Brushy]

In the interests of sharing the burden - I'd happily make the 6 hour round trip to do a range recce? Anyone with experience of setting up a CoF fancy it?

[gbal]

I did, but as I realise that the fear factor would creep in, I made my own moves

Mark,you have an impressive precedent ( president ):

 

"....if you want something good to happen,one thing is quite clear in this world-you had best take on the responsibility for doing it yourself" J.F.Kennedy

 

..that given,talking with Tiff;JohnMH (RBL);BD; et al;and liasing with Baldie/Diggle would be sensible.

 

This reduces the chance that only "God,the weather and the rest of the human race can let you down" (Simon Raven)....but you already know about tackb's lethargic enthusiasts.... 'bubble butts' . I wish your enterprise all speed and success.

 

g

[terryh]

off OP but

 

How else do you plan something out if you have no idea of the lie of the land?

 

 

Politicians do it all the time

[gbal]

off OP but

 

 

Politicians do it all the time

The really dangerous ones may even lie something out,when they have no plan of the land.

[Tiff]

Having just come in from the range and got up to speed, firstly thank you for all the kind words . It is always great to hear my borderline insane commitment to the Roundhouse project is still appreciated.

 

As mentioned, I've been holding US PSR style shoots under the 'Roundhouse Rifle Challenge' (RRC) brand for several years now in the UK. They have evolved and hopefully continually improved, as my career in the industry has expanded. The challenges themselves are designed to test your equipment, your ability and hopefully help you learn some new skills in the process. Experience has taught me people learn and develop skills easiest when they are enjoying themselves.

 

To date for legal simplicity with RRC events, I've asked people to use rifles condition for zeroing and target shooting; so I've covered all possible bases. I partly work as a sporting agent, so this is not a difficult obstacle to overcome. The Spring 2017 RRC is being penciled in for next year and will probably be a bit later than normal, falling in mid May (TBC). Equally I hold many such shoots for various clubs and likeminded groups throughout the year, I'm only a phone call or email away...

 

Personally I would be very keen for PSR style shoots to start up spaced around the country, ultimately forming a UK league. Although I know this would be a continual uphill struggle, but certainly possible with a few dedicated individuals that understand the complexities of running shoots and have access to some suitable locations.

 

The main issue I've had to date (as has already been highlighted) is lack of committed attendance. Many people talk the talk, but far fewer are prepared to run with it. I've never really understood this, as like any other sport or activity the more suitable training you do (i.e. actually shoot), the better you will generally become. I like to offer a challenge, something that will be testing and provided a real sense of accomplishment when the CoF has been attempted & hopefully completed.

 

As has been hinted to, for anyone looking at setting up a day, I would strongly recommend you consider your potential UK PSR shooter...The US market is huge by comparison and therefore can cater for all. The Vortex Extreme for instance costs £180 p.p. has 65 pairs shooting over a 7 mile course, with the first leaving before 6am and finishing before brunch. To me it sounds great fun! However I learnt fairly early on a mile long safari course with maybe 1,000 ft elevation change is more than enough and at times looked like requiring gas & air stations at each FP... In essence, be realistic with what most civilian shooters this side of the Atlantic can cope with. Stretch them a bit from their home comforts of the gallery range, but maybe hold back on the abseiling and cargo nets...

 

Also this raises another issue of timings and costs. The more complex the stages, the longer they take to run. Many of the main US and European shoots start well before 7am...Equally many major US matches cost anywhere from £75 - £200+ per day. With this sort of income, not only is more diverse shooting possible but also spotters and marshals can be paid for. Over recent RRC's I've been fortunate with people volunteering to marshal, so they can experience the shoot and learn a few tricks, before entering the next one as a shooter. Really good matches have both a spotter and marshall/RCO at each FP - it helps the day run very smoothly and enables the shooters to stay in their bubble. There's nothing quite like watching a well rehearsed pair that know their gear and routine inside out; 'simply' performing as required around the course with no dramas at all. One of the privileges of my job is watching returning teams get better and learn how to deliver results, which they previously thought almost impossible.

 

While many of you already know most (if not all) of the above, I hope it helps a bit and I look forward to the evolution of the project.

 

Tiff

[John MH]

None of these shoots happen without a lot of commitment, time and effort from those putting them on. They only work if you turn out, support them and more opportunities will grow from your support.

[MarinePMI]

Glad to see our UK brethren starting to organize tactical competitions (PRS like). What JohnMH says is true, in that it takes a lot of planning to pull off even a small match smoothly. Still, it is very much worth it in my book, and takes the sport from "Hey, look at all my cool kit" to that of one having confidence is using it for its intended purpose.

 

I just ran the last local Tac LR match (PRS like), and the thing I heard most was "Man, I haven't used all my gear like this in a lonnngggg time. This was great!". And there were no perfect scores (not even close) and no belly shooting (at least no entire stage was spent in one prone position). Hay bales, simple hedge hog tank traps (made from wood), barricades, once made make for a easier set up. For example, this past month I used stacked hay bales to form a loop hole shot off of tripods. It took about 20 mins to set up (the day before the match) and verify that targets were visible and record the range (765yds in this case IIRC).

 

The big thing in these matches to make them successful and enjoyable to the shooters is timed stages no longer the 2:30'ish seconds. You have to move shooters through the stages smoothly, and keep the squads moving between stages. Too much standing around and folks get bored. Also use targets that don't have to be reset, it eats up too much time. Pistols (which you don't have a problem with) and shotguns are mixed into our matches to shake things up and induce a little stress, but point wise are given less value so as not skew the match results focus on rifle work. They are pointed though, so shooters can't game the system by shooting into a berm as quickly as possible to get to the rifle part of the stage.

 

Range every stage and give the shooters the ranges to the targets. It saves time when shooters are starting out. People can LRF the targets themselves if they want to, but again, keeping the shooters moving is the key, Having enough RO's (one per stage) also speeds things up and reduces confusion on target presentation and scoring.

At any rate, I'm rambling as it's early in the morning here.

I just wanted to add some thoughts for those considering organizing something local to them, and also to say that I'm glad to hear this type of shooting has a growing interest in the UK.

Best regards,

 

P.S. I hope to be able to shoot in the Cup again this year (missed last year's), but am unsure whether I'll try and shoot the team challenge or the individual match.

[22lrman]

Brilliant Brilliant Brilliant!

I certainly know a few who may be interested. But could I ask what licence conditions I would need at these events.Open / closed or anything special such as a Safe Shooter Card used on MOD ranges etc etc or can I shoot with 'Target' FAC.

Personally I believe the cost would come in to it, £100 per whole day shooting is doable several times per year. But reach £130-150 it starts putting many people off. Then the travel costs, ammo, overnight, food etc etc.

 

As with most things these days its the 'cappucino' effect that draws in the larger groups of people. It's more than just the shooting, the quality of the event as a whole draws the larger crowds. Mixing it up with pistol minirifle / shotgun style IPSC stages would make it a real hummer of a weekend. But also a LOT more work.

 

just some thoughts as a frequent competitor.

[bradders]

Mixing it up with pistol minirifle / shotgun style IPSC stages would make it a real hummer of a weekend.

 

 

Not on my watch!

[TJC]

Agreed. Keep it to Precision Rifle and payment should be upfront and months before an event to secure numbers and so participants can arrange logistics to cover off the early start / long day. These matches are expensive to run / shoot but the RBL is too and look at the turnout.

 

A steel safari / mamouth sniper match style shoot would be awesome over distance and rough terrain but I doubt there would be enough participation to make it worthwhile. Start with PRS style and I'm sure participants for something more physical would ultimately come from that core group of regulars.

[John MH]

Having run a fair few matches for precision rifle shooters on Century Range at Bisley it is difficult to 'mix it up' on a Gallery Know Distance Range and as a result the stages have been similar to CSR practices but with smaller targets to add challenge (Max distance for a Fig 14 in CSR is 200 Yards, in the RBL its 600 Yards).

 

Putting something like the PRS series at Bisley would be difficult but not entirely impossible and there are some irons in a slow burning fire looking at what may be possible.

 

Having taken part in several big US Military matches and one multi-gun US World Championships, with stupid amounts of prize money, I have a good idea of whats needed to run a multi stage match across a site, or several close by sites and it would require a lot of commitment from non-shooting volunteers to run the Ranges unless the match was over a minimum of 4 days with the volunteers shooting on the first day.

 

I would like to resurrect something like the Practical Rifle National Championships at Bisley, as run by the LPSC back in the 80's and 90's, but with the focus on precision. Those matches were shot on 3 or 4 Ranges (Bisley Stickledown, Century McQueens, Ash ETR and Stoney Castle) over 2 or 3 days. What would be required is a lot of goodwill from the MoD, the NRA and volunteer Range Crew to make such an event work and, of course, commitment from competitors to turn up for the 3 days which would in all honesty be an expensive event (£150 plus ammunition, accommodation and travel).

 

Currently its a 'watch this space' as far as anything at Bisley goes. The other facilities around the UK all have limitations, restrictions or capacity issues that don't make them viable for a high attendance match (100+) with some having ta maximum of 20 shooters at a time which somewhat limits the competition element; although they are great venues and should be fully supported.

 

Oh, and anything I organise will be rifle only.