Is My ELR Rifle Legal in the UK?

[gbal]

Perhaps the differnce between calibre and cartridge (partly) explains it,as the former used to be the prefered 'legat'' term,as well as the 'FAC" term.

The Firearms Act /Deer Act was aware of,and used, energy as a criterion.

A case can be made for these becoming somewhat muddled (probably in an attempt at simplicity,rather than compromising stalking).

 

Is there a case for 50 Browning as a stalking cartridge? Is it on balance "too much" ? Would stalking be impoverished disproportionally without such energy levels?

Have fun, with opinions,then get onto 577 Tyranosaur as a roe cartridge; when you have it all sorted, apply to the CIvil Service,Police,or stand as MP and let democracy decide. Keep the day job meanwhile.

 

gbal

[Swarovski1]

Can you shoot 338 at Cawdor? If you can, and there's a discipline you can shoot with it, surely that's good reason enough to get your foot in the door with it, so to speak? Having it for target is a start.....

Give us a good reason for a 338 for deer then grum.

[Grum87]

Give us a good reason for a 338 for deer then grum.

Give us a reason for not using it on deer - from a legal point of view?

 

Dead is dead, how many deer have you shot with various calibres 243, 6.5, 308, etc that the bullet has exited while using traditional soft points? My guess is more pass through than you recover within the carcass?

 

On that basis, what does it matter what you shoot the beast with, if you've got a safe backstop and meet the minimum legal requirements? A safe backstop being relevant from 22lr right through to 50bmg?

 

I personally don't see the need for a .270win or 308 for Roe, but plenty of folk do it......

[Viajero]

I think the bottom line is no one "needs" a 338 Lapua for stalking , a 308 will do the job humanely on Reds and with a lot less meat damage , a 243 is fine on Roe and whilst legal on Red many will say its not sufficient in some instances, going stalking with a `kin great 338 AI is feeding the anti hunting mob just what they want "Nutters with military sniper rifles" would soon be on the pages of Faceache and help no one who enjoys hunting.

[Grum87]

I don't buy that one - the media nor the general public couldn't give a monkey's if its a 308, or a 338 - they wouldn't like the fact you're shooting bambi's full stop.

 

I don't disagree its a huge cartridge to take deer with, I've never argued otherwise. Aslong as it's humane, and safe, and within the realms of the law I can't see the 'issue' though. Other than as per usual, 'other' shooters don't like the idea, so it must be a bad thing.....

 

Bit like Mr Yardley and his phobia of all rifles black.....

[DW58]

Can you shoot 338 at Cawdor? If you can, and there's a discipline you can shoot with it, surely that's good reason enough to get your foot in the door with it, so to speak? Having it for target is a start.....

Theoretically yes as the range is privately owned and has a maximum m/e of 7,500 Joules, however we currently work using HME limits and don't exceed them. We actually have one member who owns a Steyr SSG 08, but it's never been used at Cawdor.

 

I suspect that my FEO is aware of this. To be honest I'm not going to push it as there is nowhere I can shoot it locally and being disabled I'm not prepared to travel long distances just to shoot a big banger occasionally. I also have a very good working relationship with my FEO and don't wish to jeopardise this, plus there are other things I'd rather spend my meagre boomstick fund on.

[brown dog]

I think the bottom line is no one "needs" a 338 Lapua for stalking , a 308 will do the job humanely on Reds and with a lot less meat damage , a 243 is fine on Roe and whilst legal on Red many will say its not sufficient in some instances, going stalking with a `kin great 338 AI is feeding the anti hunting mob just what they want "Nutters with military sniper rifles" would soon be on the pages of Faceache and help no one who enjoys hunting.

 

...and yet .308 /7.62 is the world's predominant sniping round. If you don't like 338 just because it's 338, do you not think you may have rather swallowed the same hype as the FEOs that have been described in the thread?!

 

I don't buy that one - the media nor the general public couldn't give a monkey's if its a 308, or a 338 - they wouldn't like the fact you're shooting bambi's full stop.

 

I don't disagree its a huge cartridge to take deer with, I've never argued otherwise. Aslong as it's humane, and safe, and within the realms of the law I can't see the 'issue' though. Other than as per usual, 'other' shooters don't like the idea, so it must be a bad thing.....

 

Bit like Mr Yardley and his phobia of all rifles black.....

 

Yup. Legal is legal. End of.

[Grum87]

Theoretically yes as the range is privately owned and has a maximum m/e of 7,500 Joules, however we currently work using HME limits and don't exceed them. We actually have one member who owns a Steyr SSG 08, but it's never been used at Cawdor.

 

I suspect that my FEO is aware of this. To be honest I'm not going to push it as there is nowhere I can shoot it locally and being disabled I'm not prepared to travel long distances just to shoot a big banger occasionally. I also have a very good working relationship with my FEO and don't wish to jeopardise this, plus there are other things I'd rather spend my meagre boomstick fund on.

We've a similar situation at Blairadam with our club it'd seem. Range orders allow for up to 5500ish ft/lb's of muzzle energy, 338 is doing about 5000..... But there is a reluctance to allow HME to be shot within the club.

 

In reality, 500 yards, or 600 in your guy's case is hardly scraping the surface for the 338, but it's valuable trigger time, and fun......

[Kalahari]

I do understand the attraction of firing the odd big round, but to soak up the recoil it needs to be heavy so that means because we don't have dangerous game in the UK it all seems a bit pointless to lug the weight around so mostly it is likely to be a range plaything and certainly no worse for that. Perhaps I am just getting to be a grumpy old weak git.

 

David.

[Viajero]

 

...and yet .308 /7.62 is the world's predominant sniping round. If you don't like 338, you've swallowed the same hype as the FEOs that have been described in the thread.

 

 

Yup. Legal is legal. End of.

Ive no issue with 338 Lap but wheres the sense in destroying the meat ? I do take issue with ultra long shots as not everyone is upto to it and then we end up with maimed deer wandering around , I`ve dispatched two this year , both had been shot in the leg and couldnt walk properly , no idea what rifle the half wits had used , a keeper mate has had deer on his estate with jaws blown off as well , its very possible none of these were shot with a 338 but the odds on guaranteed shot placement get higher with big distances which is what 338s are meant for and encourage.

[Grum87]

Ive no issue with 338 Lap but wheres the sense in destroying the meat ? I do take issue with ultra long shots as not everyone is upto to it and then we end up with maimed deer wandering around , I`ve dispatched two this year , both had been shot in the leg and couldnt walk properly , no idea what rifle the half wits had used , a keeper mate has had deer on his estate with jaws blown off as well , its very possible none of these were shot with a 338 but the odds on guaranteed shot placement get higher with big distances which is what 338s are meant for and encourage.

 

 

I don't disagree with your sentiment about long range shots. See my comments with regards to 'aslong as it's humane'.

[DW58]

I've never felt the need for anything larger than the calibres shown below, all of which I own/have owned/used for large quarry in the UK & Europe: Red deer; Roe Deer; Wild Boar; Wild Goat; Fox + Feral sheep and humane destruction of cattle.

• .222 Rem (hare, roe, fox)
• .223 Rem (roe)
• .243 Win (red, roe, goat, fox)
• 6.5x54mm Mannlicher Schönauer (roe, DH cattle [160gr solid])
• 7x64mm (red, roe, wildboar)
• .308 Win (red, roe, goat, fox)
• .30-06 (wildboar)
• .300 WSM (I've not used this on live quarry as yet)

Let's be honest, the larger calibres listed above can be and are used for killing the largest quarry species in Europe ... ... ... but a .338LM would be nice, but would I ... ... ... probably not because I can't afford/justify one.

[Swarovski1]

Go on then grum.give me good reason to have a 338 lap mag for deer.i posted this earlier and it disappeared again.

[justin credible]

Go on then grum.give me good reason to have a 338 lap mag for deer.i posted this earlier and it disappeared again.

I think it's only his FLO that he needs to give good reason to.

[Swarovski1]

The Feo will say a 300 win mag is good for 1300yds.how much further do you intend shooting the deer from....

How do you answer that.

It's a stupid answer but how would you reply.i think the good reason has gone past 30 cal.

If you have ever fired one you would know why.ive knocked a fig11 down at 1800yds with one.you know you've fired it too.its not a cannon but it kicks

[Grum87]

It didn't disappear, it's still there. As is my response.

 

It amounts to;

 

It is legal, so why not? Other than potential meat damage, what reasoning can you give someone not to?

 

And as I also stated earlier in the thread, having a rifle(any rifle in any calibre) conditioned to shoot over land, makes load development, zeroing and some degree of practice much more practical.

 

Did I ever state that it'd be my go-to stalking rifle that I'd shoot everything from munty to red's with? No....but I would atleast like to use it in anger on occasions, if the opportunity came up.

 

I know people that have 308's and 30/06 conditioned for fox and aolq...... 30/06 is running just shy of 3000 ft/lbs....red deer is considerably bigger than a fox, and 338 runs at 5000 ft/lbs or so with 300grainers. A fox weighs what, 10kg? A red could weigh 200+? But shooting foxes with big 30cals is 'ok'?

 

If it came down to what was enough for the task, we'd all be running around with .222's or less for fox, and 243's for deer.....

[Swarovski1]

I've a 338lm on my ticket but can't see myself bothering.if I could use it for deer would i change my mind.i doubt it.besides the sort of 338lm I would go for is not something you would want to lug around.

I've only shot a couple of reds.the 6.5 06 and 140gr amax was more than adequate.they didn't take many steps and bullet exited.ive never found a bullet in a carcase.

Hopefully if all goes well I am out after a stag or 2 this weekend coming with my 284.

[Swarovski1]

I would be very surprised if somebody would take the OP out to shoot a deer from a mile.

[Swarovski1]

It didn't disappear, it's still there. As is my response.

 

It amounts to;

 

It is legal, so why not? Other than potential meat damage, what reasoning can you give someone not to?

 

And as I also stated earlier in the thread, having a rifle(any rifle in any calibre) conditioned to shoot over land, makes load development, zeroing and some degree of practice much more practical.

 

Did I ever state that it'd be my go-to stalking rifle that I'd shoot everything from munty to red's with? No....but I would atleast like to use it in anger on occasions, if the opportunity came up.

 

I know people that have 308's and 30/06 conditioned for fox and aolq...... 30/06 is running just shy of 3000 ft/lbs....red deer is considerably bigger than a fox, and 338 runs at 5000 ft/lbs or so with 300grainers. A fox weighs what, 10kg? A red could weigh 200+? But shooting foxes with big 30cals is 'ok'?

 

If it came down to what was enough for the task, we'd all be running around with .222's or less for fox, and 243's for deer.....

grum it's called magnumitis

[gbal]

222 for fox,243 for roe deer.....there could be worse regulation.....

 

"When it comes down to what is enough....." ,well any 30calibre expanding missile through the heart is terminal,on all UK quarry.

Details are largely irrelevant to the 'enough' issue.

Much the same holds for other legal calibres.

 

" Commensurate with public safety" and other considerations are separate,but important.It's a sport,or hobby,not survival.

 

gbal

[eldon]

I no longer have it, but when I had 338LM on my FAC, it was conditioned for deer and fox. Yes, really

 

 

 

I know there is at least one conditioned the same on open ticket with North Yorkshire as I've fired it.

 

The bit I don't get is at a 96 grain reloads, or thereabouts, what is he going to achieve that I can't with my 308 running mid 40 grains of powder?

[Swarovski1]

I would like to witness a cold bore shot at a mile inside a 10 inch kill zone of a red deer silohette target.unless there was not a breath of wind but still very unlikely I think.there is plenty of 338lm owners on ukv.maybe one of them could jump in.

[The_Dogge]

I think there is some misunderstanding of the term "good reason", in the legal usage applying to firearms licensing it does not mean "you need firearm_x and nothing else will do the job", it means that you have a place where you can legally use firearm_x for the purpose for which you applied for it.

The fact that a different gun would also do the job is not legally relevant to the argument. This is my reading of it, not a legal opinion, am I wrong?

Of course that misunderstanding is shared by many FEOs and the argument is often had, but from what I have seen often won too, I have bumped into a few people at the range who had guns conditioned for uses which I thought was "impossible to get".

[Grum87]

I would like to witness a cold bore shot at a mile inside a 10 inch kill zone of a red deer silohette target.unless there was not a breath of wind but still very unlikely I think.there is plenty of 338lm owners on ukv.maybe one of them could jump in.

 

No one other than the OP has even suggested taking long range shots on live quarry.......

[maximus otter]

 

maximus otter