Do I need a 260 or other?

[tackb]

nothing against the 55 per se , in fact it's a lovely round but I think it's done a little better in short actions now

 

anything in 22-250/243/308 etc should be fine ? 22-250 most likely to be shot out !

 

if your happy to stock and re-barrel you'll get going for 3-4 hundred quid for a donar

[Rabbitter]

I've read this thread a few times now and admit I haven't followed all of the logic, so if I missed anything I apologise in advance. However, I would argue the following:

 

1) In a lighter rifle/stalking scenario it would be hard to separate the performance of 260 vs 6.5 creed vs 6.5x47 vs 6.5x55

 

2 If you plan to base your choice on a Tikka T3 or T3X action, there would be no difference in the overall length of the rifle whether you choose .223rem or 30-06 as the actions are all the same. That being the case, I would get a 6.5x55 with a 20 inch barrel at around 3Kg as per Banus02's post. (Actually, I have a Sauer 6.5x55 with 22 inch barrel. The unscoped weight is 2.9Kg, so I don't regret having the extra 2 inches - oo-er missus)

 

http://cdn1.tikka.fi/sites/default/files/technicalspecs_t3x_laminated_stainless.xlsx_.pdf

 

regards

 

 

Ian

[Xtrema]

The Creedmoor and the 6.5x47 can't do anything the 260 Rem can't do.

[tackb]

The Creedmoor and the 6.5x47 can't do anything the 260 Rem can't do.

Correct , apart from more accurate factory ammo available

[Scrumbag]

I'd stay away form any of the '06 length cases with a 20" barrel.

 

260 Looks like it would feed better than some of the other choices as would a Swede if you wanted a light stalking rifle

[tackb]

I'd stay away form any of the '06 length cases with a 20" barrel.

 

260 Looks like it would feed better than some of the other choices as would a Swede if you wanted a light stalking rifle

 

I had no issues with feeding creedmoor and 260rem from unmodified AICS mags

[baldie]

The Creedmoor and the 6.5x47 can't do anything the 260 Rem can't do.

 

 

 

Try feeding a 140 grain bullet into the lands with a std spec .260 chamber, from an AICS mag. You can't. The mag isn't long enough.

 

The creedmoor can, with room to spare, and gives up very little indeed to the .260 in terms of performance.

 

It has a longer neck, a shoulder angle that burns powder inside the neck, not the throat [like the .260 ] and is far easier to tune.

 

I,ve owned most of the 6.5,s and would not give another .260 cabinet room. The Creedmoor is a far better cartridge in my opinion.

[Chanonry]

 

find a rifle you like and go for it !

 

 

that has got to be right hasn't it. Everyone starts with calibre, but in these circumstances it is a wash so find a rifle that is shootable in that app then pick the best calibre available for you ?

[eldon]

Ok, so can someone just clarify which of these currently have factory brass available?

 

Reloading is a side of my hobby to bring accuracy and cost benefits, not an obsession, and in my head case forming is just adding to the task.

[Tuck]

I think pretty much all the 6.5 Cals mentioned have factory brass available, the .260, 6.5x47, and the Creedmoor.

[baldie]

.260 in lapua

 

6.5 x 47 in lapua

 

creedmoor in Hornady, and Norma. Papua are shortly going to be doing it too.

[maximus otter]

Papua are shortly going to be doing it too.

 

Don't rely on Spellcheck, Dave...

 

 

maximus otter

[bradders]

 

Don't rely on Spellcheck, Dave...

 

 

maximus otter

 

I've been there, Port Moresby to be precise.

It's on the Kokodo Trail and saw the demise of the Japanese forces.

 

As far as I know there aren't any Wildcats there, and the only ones that have ever been there were made by Grumman

[gbal]

Hornady load hunting ammo for their 6.5 Creedmoor in 120g,129g,140g,143g (variously SST,Interbond,Interlock,SMK bullets) and Amax,and ELD match).

H also makes 6.5 Creedmore and 260 Rem brass

 

Lapua loads a 140 Naturalis in 6.5x47 L

L also make 6.5x47 Lapua and 260 Rem brass (and maybe CM)

 

Norma don't currently load only the 6.6x55,but do so in 5 hunting loadings.

N do 6.5 Creedmoor ,260 Rem,and 6.5x55 brass

 

260 Rem: there are at least 12 hunting loads (100,120,1225,130,140g) from Remington ,Federal,Nosler

 

Loaded ammo,being SAAMI/CIP will function in all SAAMI/CIP rifles.

 

I don't think there are (m) any light carry rifles with AICS mags (at 9.8 lb,the Ruger PR hardly qualifies).

 

There are not many light,carry rifles in the 6.5 Lapua or Creedoor at all,and they typically carry a premium price.

 

260 Rem is a little better served from the factory.

 

6.5x55 has the largest choice by far.

 

Specs which make for a target cartridge are typically almost irrelevant to a hunting carridge,which will not fire anywhere near enough shots for possible 10% more barrel life to be much of a consideration (6.5 hunting rifles might reasonably expect 2500-3000 potential barrel life). Reliable functioning from the box is more critical (6.5 x55,and 308 do well here).

 

308 included as it is very flexible in loading(100-125g light,and huge choice on up for hunting bullets.Availability second to none,ditto costs-especially if you have the dies etc already!

 

So,more fun for dark evenings ( without even considering other excellent fox/roe options-enough is enough).

 

I'm very much with Chanonry's point-when there are sensible but restrictive rifle considerations,the rifle is more important than cartridge....and for 'lightcarry roe/fox...and not mega£",niche cartridges are unlikely (you'd think 'light,carry' was a biggish niche-well,it once was,and was well served in US by the major manufacturers...in the BC days ...Before Chassis, and even Ballistic Coefficient :-)

There are excellent 6.5s,as above,but trying to pair up any one with the crucial rifle specs will reduce options dramatically.

 

And of course any decision is not all 'numbers'-though it should be rational and focussed on what is needed AND wanted,but it has to be available!

Good pondering.

 

gbal

[gbal]

I've been there, Port Moresby to be precise.

It's on the Kokodo Trail and saw the demise of the Japanese forces.

 

As far as I know there aren't any Wildcats there, and the only ones that have ever been there were made by Grumman [/quot

 

Probably some old 6.5 Arisakas,though......

 

g

[Viajero]

 

I've been there, Port Moresby to be precise.

It's on the Kokodo Trail and saw the demise of the Japanese forces.

 

As far as I know there aren't any Wildcats there, and the only ones that have ever been there were made by Grumman

Did you go with Maj Tim ?

[Hobbit]

Related to this topic, I am looking fwd to the denouement of Laurie's trilogy on the 6.5mm family of cartridges on targetshooter

 

In a shameless display of impatience I actually pm'd him about it yesterday. I love his work but choosing to leave the 'eternal debate' calibres of .260R, 6.5x47L and 6.5CM to the end when that appears to mean a 3+ month wait feels a tad unsporting even if there is a legit operational reason behind it. Valkyries Dave's comments (alternative moniker vs Baldie- given I am currently in the process of going bald and am a bit sensitive about it) about neck combustion etc are intriguing - how does that differ from 6.5x47L ??

 

Cheers anyway

 

H

[baldie]

The 47 will also burn inside the case, due to its shoulder.

 

The CM just has more case capacity . When the small primer lap case comes out for the CM, it will give an already great cartridge, just that little bit more.

[Hobbit]

Dave

 

Do you know when Lapua is coming out with the 6.5CM brass? I see a lot about it on the net for the last 18 months or so but no hard date

 

Thanks

[baldie]

I dont i,m afraid. When they announced the .260 case, it took a couple of years.

[gbal]

Hobbit,

If you have not already done so,while you wait for Laurie's take on this,try the following-there is so much overlap between,yet opinions and assessments differ.Better stated, sensible choice depends on your criteria-and not all are 'ballistic'-or considered in one line opinions,with limited relevant evidence,from devotees of one discipline.

 

6.5 cartridge shoot out Demigod well balanced

 

260Rem v 6.5 CM Frank Gali Snipers Hide Bullet Point some criteria,typically neglected

 

Rifle caliber-what the pros use Precision rifle blog (the move to 6mm versions-for PR)

 

There are of course older 6.5s (noteably x55,at least the equal in some ways) and the new screamers from Nosler and Weatherby,because it can be done. Good reading,meanwhile.

 

gbal

[Hobbit]

gbal

 

Thank you for that - very helpful, I had seen the first but not the second (not sure how my google fu failed me there but thank you) - just watched it

 

Frank seems to think that barrel life will be the same despite, as Dave says, there will be more combustion in the long neck of the creedmoor vs barrel

 

By the way Laurie very kindly got back to me to say that his parts III and IV are imminent (in post production - photos etc) and that the 6.5CM story may need a bit of an edit given that "Lapua has confirmed today it has started brass production and it will be small primer / flash-hole to arrive in early 2017"

 

Kudos to Laurie on this scoop and good news for all - Dave/Baldie is putting together a 6.5CM barrel for my brothers AT (as well as a Valkyrie AR) so he will be chuffed

 

cheers

 

Hobbit

[lapua]

I dont i,m afraid. When they announced the .260 case, it took a couple of years.

 

http://newsletter.lapua.club/a/s/98840076-1dd5375eb9c39c15809c30d9d0cf717c/1468273

[lapua]

..

[gbal]

Hobbit,

just glad it helped a bit...sometimes 'differences' are quite small-and as often as not,lacking much actuale evidence,and especially significance in the real world of application.The barrel life may be one such-CM targeteers probably run considerably hotter loads than 260 hunters (factory ammo oftenand no sgtrings of shots etc),so a clear controlled comparison isn't possible (that would be about 20 near identical barrels in each chambering,shot similarly until end of life)...but end of life is likely to be sooner for a competition rifle than a hunter (less need for ultimate precision) and so on-and even 10% more shots (in a life of say 2500) isn't going to matter to a lifetime hunter,even if it wee delivered.

And so on and so on....the CM won't be worse,but correspondingly lacks just a tad 'performance' -though that too is largely irrelevant -both are 'adequate' for purpose,and the small primer etc as a custom choice,it's even less relevant-the basic issue is more whether there is a rifle so chambered,and what is the choice/cost/availability....and it all can change-as Oscar Wilde said" fashion is so ridiculous,we have to change it every six months",which isn't lost on the marketing world.

 

'Twas ever thus : 222Rem Mag/223;243/244; 7x57/ 7-08;

hot 7mms RM/RUM/RSAUM/WM/STW/WSM/DAKOTA......

g