Reloading 223

[toxo]

Trying to decide what to put on my variation.

Cost is very much a factor. For that reason I have to go for an hmr but what else?

Only interested in bunnies and the occasional fox

Think I've finally pinned it down to a.223

Think I might enjoy reloading so what would be a rough cost of the equipment?

[MrCetrizine]

From about £160 for a new Lee 50th anniversary kit plus dies to as high as you want to go for a Forster coax and Redding comp dies etc.

 

If I were in your position, I'd go for a Lee kit but upgrade to better RCBS scales, you'd be looking at £280ish.

[chaz]

Speaking from experience. I bought the Lee kit, which was ok-ish. The scale were total trash. Not so much as in accuracy, but it just took soo long to get them set-up right. 4 years on, the only thing i have left of the kit, is the single stage press...

[geek]

I am quite new to reloading and I bought the Hornady lock and load press - I have not had any problems and I am currently reloading .308 win and 6.5 Creedmore (.223 to follow and I buy the dies etc.).

[bully]

The Lee classic cast press is good.

You will get plenty of different ideas.

It's OK to start simple so you can save for the buy once cry once purchase. I went with measuring spoons a trickler and rcbs 505 to a charge master when I could afford. Hornady dies have treated me well.

[SpinDrift]

.223 is a good choice. As far as centerfire cartridges go it's relatively cheap to shoot with plenty of factory and milsurp rounds available. Great for paper punching at most ranges as long as it's not too windy and perfect for fox.

[Crow Juice]

I know I live in the States but you might look into a used press. My second press was an RCBS junior and I see them regularly here for about $50. Mine has been in service since 1981.They are cast iron , will last 2 lifetimes and are relatively small. Perfect for a 223 .I suggest you buy an iron press what ever you do just for longevity. Over the years I have picked up numerous pieces of used equipment for very good prices.

 

I will say regarding powder measures the Lee Perfect Powder Measure is more consistent than my Redding. Best $20 you can spend for hand loading. Keep us up on what you buy.

 

Remember you don't need expensive equipment to load quality ammo,just pay close attention to set up and procedures.

[toxo]

Thanks guys. I do appreciate the replies. Is there a list of comonents needed? I'm getting confused with all that I'm reading/watching. For example I assume resizing dies are not needed? Someone else said trickling for some powders is preferable to powder measures? I'm looking forward to learning all this stuff, I just need to concentrate on learning just 223 for now. Any links that have it all in one place? Or maybe a recent 223 book?

[gbal]

Foxo: the general basics of metallic bottle neck rifle cartridge reloading are pretty much the same-223 is no exception,and not at all special in any way.

The basic sequence is : Resize the caseand decap-remove the spent primed;reprime the case;add measured powder; seat the bullet with seater die.Done.

The dies need a press,and the appropriate cartridge shellholder. You need to to lubricate the case prior to resizing.

 

Thus basic but sufficient equipment is :

 

reloading press (does most any cartridge)

Shell holder for the (223) cartridge

Full Length resizing die,the lubricated case in the press will be deprimed at the same time.

 

Hand reprimer-some need appropriate shell holder.

Powder beam scale measure-critical,powder has to be accurately and cnsistently weighed out.

Seat bullet with the bullet seater using the press(seater die comes with the FL resizer usually,as a set).

 

 

You really do need a reloading manual that includes the powder and bullets you intend to use.Most outline the process too. Don't get a wide variety of bullets/powders--experimeting is for next year.Get known quality components though.

 

There a are lots of handy bits and pieces you can add-but not essential yet. Get FL dies,not neck sizing dies (you might add Neck dies,but not for quite a while-some expensive sets include them-that's OK.

A powder dispenser is handy,which will throw powder-set just under desired weight,add to balance scale pan,and trickle up... though not essential,it speeds things up if loading a lot.Good -or basic- micrometer is useful-to check cartridge overal length-it has to fit you magazine,eg,but it isn't essentialhere-you can just adjust the seater die to push the bullet in bit by bit-which you will have to do anyhow!

 

that's it.

Google "Metallic cartridge case reloading"-up will come eg

 

Rifle Cartridge Reloading-getting started Chuck Hawks

Gettig Started in Reloading Lyman

Beginners Guide to Reloading Equipment

 

etc

Read them all-they should pretty much agree-though might suggest alternate brands of equipment-you can mix and match.

Do not get persuaded by club 'experts' that their favourite gizmo is essential,if not on the given lists.It isn't.Trust the books for basic advice-it has come from many years of successfulreloading by beginners,and some never really go beyond it .

Listen to eg 'seating depth' advocates,but do not even think about it till you are well practiced in standard length ammo making.

Factory ammo does none of these fancy fine tunes either-one size fits all-and shoots OK.Eventually,you might do better if you want/need to....you might have a Xmas 2017 list of kit upgrades-or additions.

It's not rocket science,just needs care and attention-especially the powder (.1 g consistency will do nicely -that's about 3 or 4 kernels-so a teaspoon won't do,but you don't need a serious science lab balance either!).

 

Enjoy-don't rush it,better 25 good rounds ,than a pile of errors.

 

gbal

[toxo]

Just what was needed, thanks for taking the time gbal.

 

Hey! I got a new name. Might be more appropriate since I don't do Archery anymore (toxo is short for toxophilite).

[DW58]

Press-wise, you simply can not beat an RCBS Rock Chucker regardless of age. I bought mine second hand in 1988 and it's still serving me well and I'm sure will be good for another 28 years and beyond.

 

If you can get one s/h grab it with both hands - the same goes for very similar models from Lyman and Hornady - bomb proof to put it mildly.

[snakeman]

From about £160 for a new Lee 50th anniversary kit plus dies to as high as you want to go for a Forster coax and Redding comp dies etc.

 

If I were in your position, I'd go for a Lee kit but upgrade to better RCBS scales, you'd be looking at £280ish.

 

 

+ 1 ....will do everything you need it to do without having to fork out for individual components - and as above, I too would advise on upgrading the scales

[gbal]

Just what was needed, thanks for taking the time gbal.

 

Hey! I got a new name. Might be more appropriate since I don't do Archery anymore (toxo is short for toxophilite).[/qu

 

 

Oops,sorry about that -thanks for making light of it-don't feel compelled to embrace vulpicide.

[VarmLR]

I reload 223 and it's a lovely little round both to load and to shoot.

 

Re-loading wise, the Lee kit is ok, as others have said some things could be improved. For that reason, I'd probably recommend a Breachlock Challenger press if on a budget and an RCBS RockChucker for a little more. The Lee quick-trim plus scales are very poor and will be the first things you sell or throw away if you but a Lee Anniversary kit....hence don't bother with the kit. Buy the press, some pace-setter dies (really quite good), a set of digital calipers, a gauge length trimmer, the Lee powder thrower (as good as many at 4 times the cost), some RCBS beam scales (used about £50), MTM load tray, Lee prime, or Lee Ram prime system, and you're away.

 

For gauges, Hornady's L-N-L vernier comparator tool plus attachments for headspace and bullet seating gauges are the way to go. A few hundred quid for that lot plus another £70 or so for a Lyman tumbler and media.

 

I'd budget (realistically) £300 for everything you want. You can do it for less, but you'll only end up buying most of not all of the above items (if not from the same manufacturers) anyway.

 

 

Otherwise, the cheap option to start with is simply use a Lee Loader for £32.

[geek]

toxo - where are you based?

 

I am based in the North West and also a member of Diggle range.

 

I therefore attended their reloading course which I have found to be invaluable, run by "The Gun Pimp" on here and Stuart from Osprey Rifles. Cost was £35 and that included a Hornady reloading manual and both presentation and practical hands-on reloading, From my own experience I can't recommend what The Gun Pimp and Stuart provided enough; it will give you confidence and a little knowledge at the start to hopefully avoid any (serious) mistakes.

 

Otherwise I would ask someone who also reloads to show you how its done, nothing better than a practical demonstration.

[Andrew]

I would recommend this.

A single stage press that forces you to screw in the dies every time, and make adjustments as needed. The more you set up dies, the better you get at it and the quicker you will recognize when something is amiss, and can then rectify the problem.

If you are not shooting a competition rifle, any set of dies will do. If you are considering a straight pull, get “Small Base” FL reloading dies. I use these for all my reloading as I have several .223‘s. Note that after better than a century of keeping track of such things, Lyman Reloading has declared that (special circumstances aside) neck sizing does not increase accuracy nor increase case life. FL sizing to fit your rifle makes the sizing operation pretty much trouble free.

I wouldn’t worry about headspacing gauges, concentricity gauges or Distance to the lands gauges. Especially the last two: If it isn’t concentric, what are you going to do? I bought the Hornady unit with the correcting function: Junk. As to distance to the lands? Seat to factory recommended OAL and you don’t need to worry about it.

Spend your money on a good powder thrower like a Harrell or a Jones. With powders typical to 223 these will throw charges to an exactitude. Buy the best beam scale you can afford. (Lee’s work fine, but are difficult to use) Get a good set of dial vernier calibers and a micrometer. I would get Forster trimmer but even the Lee hand trimmer will be fine. I like the Forster because it allows me to trim all cases to the length of the shortest case in the batch. I do this because I crimp and want all my cases identical.

In short, buy the best of the essentials and worry about other things later. ~Andrew

[snakeman]

Note that after better than a century of keeping track of such things, Lyman Reloading has declared that (special circumstances aside) neck sizing does not increase accuracy

 

 

 

 

And the Lee Manual "declares" (as do many other sources other than Richard Lee) that neck sizing actually 'improves accuracy'... This is likely to be subjective but, I can attest that in my .223, neck-sized rounds print significantly more consistent and accurate groups, and does so with 3 different makes of brass...

 

therefore 'my' .223 is pinpoint accurate on a consistent basis because it must be, just 'must' be because of "special circumstance"

[VarmLR]

The jury's still out for me about which method is the more accurate. Managed a pretty decent score at the 600 yd Century today using Lee (collet) neck sized 308 rounds and doubt that I'd have done any better with FL sized rounds.

[Kalahari]

I have really enjoyed this thread, so thank you all. I don't reload at the moment but it almost convinces me to try.

 

David.

[Andrew]

 

 

And the Lee Manual "declares" (as do many other sources other than Richard Lee) that neck sizing actually 'improves accuracy'... This is likely to be subjective but, I can attest that in my .223, neck-sized rounds print significantly more consistent and accurate groups, and does so with 3 different makes of brass...

 

therefore 'my' .223 is pinpoint accurate on a consistent basis because it must be, just 'must' be because of "special circumstance"

I neck size some of my loads, for some chamberings. I'm not against it but for a new reloader I advise against it until it's proven to be needed. Also, didn't write the text for Lyman. I'm just repeating what they have found and really, they were making reloading equipment and developing data 70 years before Lee started shop. Lee does not generate any load data, nor do actual live firing. Lyman does. That doesn't make them right, but it lends more credence to their claims.

 

FWIW it's worth, I see no difference in neck or FL resizing in any of my 223s, using five different makes of brass.~Andrew

[toxo]

I have really enjoyed this thread, so thank you all. I don't reload at the moment but it almost convinces me to try.

 

David.

 

Same as that David.

 

I think I'm going to enjoy this mallarky once I do start.

 

Taking a leap of faith and assuming I will get the 223, aside from primers and (at the moment) exp bullets, there's nothing stopping me from accumulating components, cases etc if I come across them is there? And what does one look for in a used case and how can you tell if it's already knackered?

Can we move on to bullets now? And twist rates, and does anyone cast there own bullets? Is it worth it and are they accurate?

[VarmLR]

For cases, to start with at least, don't mess about with used cases (sold as once or twice fired). Buy new. For 223, PPU are fine and you should get a minimum of half a dozen reloads from them, and more if you anneal. Look for case/head web thinning in fired cases, where the cartridge case stretches with each firing and re-sizing, hence needs trimming every few firings, this material comes from the thick web area and spreads up the case, thinning out the web. A bright ring can sometimes form on the outside as the brass is worked there. You can test with a paperclip whether you feel any internal indents at that point but really, especially if not annealing and FL sizing, it's not worth taking risks so 6 reloads leaves you plenty of margin for error. I know some people that squeeze 15 or more out of them. The calibre isn't especially hard on brass. Lapua is better, and I get more reloads from my lap brass than PPU. It's also better quality.

 

There'll come a point where the amount of brass spreading from the base thins the web too much (leaving it prone to head/case separation which would ruin your day) and/or where the neck area becomes too thick and you may not be able able to chamber a round (ie out of SAAMI spec). It's not wise to push things to squeeze as many reloads until you reach this point. Neck sizing does work the brass less, but ther appears to be argument and counter argument at the moment (eg Lyman V's Lee) on the merits of FL V's neck sizing. If buying relatively cheap brass, the recommendation is generally FL size everything and discard brass after 6 to 8 firings.

 

Why cast bullets for a 223? You'll increase lead fouling in the barrel and probably wont get any better consistency than factory, for which there is a huge choice available and at reasonable cost. Lee Precision sell rifle bullet molds if you do want to have a go though.

 

For twist rate, the bullet choice depends on what you want the bullet for, including range to be shot (ie terminal ballistics), and the type of bullet required. Twist rate needed is dependant upon bullet length to diameter. Whilst people generalise about bullet weight (ie increased weight needing faster twist rates such as 1/8 for 223), it is bullet length that matters. If used for general purpose foxing and a bit of 100 to 200 target, you'll do fine with a 1/12 and up to 55gr BT bullets. It will struggle to stabilise most bullets heavier and longer than this. For a more general purpose rifle shooting say 600 yd target and vermin control, you'd be better looking for a twist rate of 1/8 to stabilise the longer, higher BC bullets up to perhaps 77gr.

[gbal]

toxo, absolutely as VarmLR's advice. (you will hear of lever action carbine shooters ,firing pistol cartridges ,casting their bullets.But castlead bullets offer little joy for 223 Rem rifle shooters. Buy new brass initially-avoids glitches (all chambers are not equal-FL gets close,but even so,why add a risk when beginning?)

 

Meanwhile,read Accurate Shooter 223 info pages- do not rush out and buy any/everything,but wonder/marvel at the range available-noting it's US bias-marketing,not intrinsic quality per se. Euro Vihtavuori/ReloadSwiss powders and Lapua/Norma brass are as good as it gets.

 

gbal

[toxo]

I really can't thank you guys enough!

 

Not just for the info but for restoring my faith in these forums. This is what it should be like, sitting in a pub talking with like minded people, giving and exchanging information without thought of gain or ego. Magic.

[banus02]

good afternoon toxo,you can buy 224 bullets and i suggest you order some 52gr amax .they will stabalise in 1in12 through to 1in7 twist barrel,and can be used for target and vermin.in my rifle are very accurate.good luck.