Looking for a Rimfire replacement

[onehole]

Took the Howa mini 223 out with my rimfire earlier today just to have a plinking session.I was only on a small piece of land and the maximum I could get out was about 90 yards so the following picture and groups were done at 90 yards OK not that its gonna make too much difference if done at 100......would all still be within an inch.....I left the scope on a 100 yard zero setting hence POI a tad high.All shots were done off the bonnet of my Pajero resting on bags and there was a little wind about ,,no particular direction just swirling around and best decribed as light. ...I cant say I was absolutely steady when taking shots but fairly planted,,,,,I shot three shots at each dot and then fired the remaining 8 shots aiming dead centre of the whole card where the lines crossed.I did not time the process or take a break,,,,must have been around 5 mins I guess. After the 20 shots the barrel and moderator were only just warm.The first shot was placed in the lower left group and from an absolutely clean barrel.

When I got home I cleaned the barrel just with what I would call a quick clean,,,two with fluid and three dry ones and prior to this the barrel looked just a little dull only ,,,,no powder or debris to be seen,,,,,so there we are ,,,,I,m well happy with this little fella ,,,,thought this exercise would be of interest to some of you who are gonna give the TB a bash,,,,,,,,,take care,,,,,O

[Vermincinerator]

Theres only one choice, 17 Fireball

 

Ian

[baldie]

Whatever you decide, these little, short cases don't work in traditional magazine systems on rem 700 footprints. The case is out of the mag, before its remotely near the chamber.

 

You need a dedicated fireball action and its mag, or possibly a cz 527 and a .221 FB mag [easily available.]

 

As a bipod varminter, there is no real need to mag feed. Just pick a single shot action with a cone bolt head.

[dogfox1]

Whatever you decide, these little, short cases don't work in traditional magazine systems on rem 700 footprints. The case is out of the mag, before its remotely near the chamber.

 

You need a dedicated fireball action and its mag, or possibly a cz 527 and a .221 FB mag [easily available.]

 

As a bipod varminter, there is no real need to mag feed. Just pick a single shot action with a cone bolt head.

Baldie : Many thanks for that advice, just looked at a 17FB , but not sure if one can get that much lower velocity with them. It was the action and mag I was looking at. Was thinking about the 22FB as a better choice.

 

Already found some Trail Boss to give that a try first before to see if that works first.

 

Onehole : Those Trail loads look quite good considering the low velocity and conditions, thank for the input.

[baldie]

Vhitavuori Tin Star is pretty much identical, and available. I have it in stock, and anyone that sells Vhit should be able to get it.

 

I,ve had it with the American powders. Switched exclusively to Vhit for all my own guns.

[gunner]

I decided on the easy bit for a 17 cal , the name ! Lol I'll call it the 17 knitt , as theres shrew ,peewee , flea etc,.just need to get forming dies custom made !

[gbal]

If decided on the easy bit for a 17 cal , the name ! Lol I'll call it the 17 knitt , as theres shrew ,peewee , flea etc,.just need to get forming dies custom made !

It'll be the 'pick' of the bunch...

 

If I buy the wool,will you knit me one as well? ;-)

[gunner]

Pink cardigan ok ?

[gbal]

Pink cardigan ok ?

Lovely,go with my slippers. Metric pink,if possible :-)

 

gbal

[gunner]

I thought id spelt that wrong ! 'nit' it is . i also thought 17 tick whilst at work obviously very busy lol

[joe soapy]

Took the Howa mini 223 out with my rimfire earlier today just to have a plinking session.I was only on a small piece of land and the maximum I could get out was about 90 yards so the following picture and groups were done at 90 yards OK not that its gonna make too much difference if done at 100......would all still be within an inch.....I left the scope on a 100 yard zero setting hence POI a tad high.All shots were done off the bonnet of my Pajero resting on bags and there was a little wind about ,,no particular direction just swirling around and best decribed as light. ...I cant say I was absolutely steady when taking shots but fairly planted,,,,,I shot three shots at each dot and then fired the remaining 8 shots aiming dead centre of the whole card where the lines crossed.I did not time the process or take a break,,,,must have been around 5 mins I guess. After the 20 shots the barrel and moderator were only just warm.The first shot was placed in the lower left group and from an absolutely clean barrel.

When I got home I cleaned the barrel just with what I would call a quick clean,,,two with fluid and three dry ones and prior to this the barrel looked just a little dull only ,,,,no powder or debris to be seen,,,,,so there we are ,,,,I,m well happy with this little fella ,,,,thought this exercise would be of interest to some of you who are gonna give the TB a bash,,,,,,,,,take care,,,,,O

IMG_0310.JPG

 

You been quite lately,, Still liking your mini?, any more mods .

I have wound the trigger sdjustment right back, but, havent dared to touch the mechanism

[brave Echo niner]

A 17 rem is a very good round to consider!

[njc110381]

It's a dragged up old post, but have you looked at the .17 Skeeter? .25ACP case necked down to .17. This guy tried it, not sure how much luck he had?!

 

http://webpages.charter.net/Rodgervich/Paul/skeeter.htm

[dogfox1]

Many thanks for the 17 Skeeter info, looks quite interesting.

 

There would be a lot thought, that would go into building one of those and getting it to feed.

[gbal]

dogfox, I discussed some of the (surprisingly) many attempts at a 22rf level cf cartridge in earlier posts.The best seies was probably BIl Eichelberger's,of which the Dart is the most relevant here-the 25 ACP necked to .14 with mid 2500 velocity-issue is,with all these small pistol case wildcats,velocity haemorhage is serious.

The reference given will expand,but the 17Skeeter was an 'amateur project' convering a 22rf rifle to cf (Rodgervich).

He got 20g bullets at 12-1700fps,and .75 inch groups at 50 y.

By 2004 he had 15g moly Berger MEFs shooting (at) squirrels and rabbits between 25 and 50 yards...which he summarised thus "closer is better"......which tells us something important. Moly reduced fouling,with extraction problems.

 

Another attempt,that really does not succeed at all as a 22rf replacement-ie keep performance similar(exceed it,sometimes-bigger case!) but equivalent.....?? let alone costs etc. Not without some interest in the attempts,for anyone so inclined-but be realistic.

Standard epitaph follows,from the guy himself:

 

"It is basically useless,but it's fun to talk about".

 

gbal

[snaggletooth]

You need nothing more than using your existing 222,,,,,,,,get yourself some Trail Boss powder,,,,,with your existing bullet,,probably a 40 to 50 grain?,,,,,load to existing OAL and work up a load with the Trail Boss. I have a stonking accurate load for my 223 with 7 gns of TB and a 50 Blitzking,,,,gives me 1750 fps and pretty flat to 100 yards,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,your 222 may work well with similar loads ,,,,experiment,,,,,,

I can also run my 22PPC with 7.5 gns of Trail Boss with the 50gn Blitzkings ,,,,,,silly accurate at lower velocity for 100 yards.

Both rifles need no windage correction for zero at 100 yards [given I zero at 200 for full power loads] simply an elevation dial up 3 MOA for the 223 and 2 MOA for the PPC.

 

No case prep just a bit of load development,,,,,,,,,take care TB does not flow well in powder measures and you may well have to use a dipper/scooper etc and trickle up carefully,,,,,,,,I think you will be very surprised what you can do with this powder and your existing 222,,,,,,,,,,,,O

 

Otherwise,,,,,,,,17/22 Fireball.

 

Interesting post. Did the lower velocity have any notable effects on the expansion of the 50gr blitzkings?

[onehole]

 

Interesting post. Did the lower velocity have any notable effects on the expansion of the 50gr blitzkings?

Not done any body shots,,,only head shots and still very destructive!!,,,Its well accurate enough for head shots ,,,will try some body shots in due course just to see......

[17 squirrel]

Hi dogfox. I thought i had found the perfect replacement for the HMR in my 17 squirrel. But there are a couple of niggles i have always had. the brass, even tho it is kind on brass, it can be hard to find and of mixed quality. Being single shot, 98 times out of 100 that doesn't matter, but those 2 times always boil my wee. My choice of action was fixed on the cz hornet mini mauser to give me a small light carry gun. The caliber had to be .17. So after quite a bit of humin n harrin i think i have found it. Here's a picture of it with a parent case,formed case (but not fire formed) a17 HMR case a 17 squirrel and a 17 HH. Will be looking for a doner action very soon

[The_Dogge]

Interesting, is that a 17-30 Carbine?

What's the case capacity? it looks at first glance to me like a really complicated way to get a 17 Fireball...

[dogfox1]

Interesting, is that a 17-30 Carbine?

What's the case capacity? it looks at first glance to me like a really complicated way to get a 17 FB .

 

Your right looks very interesting, but the 17FB is just as complicated. No brass available in the country or the US. Norman Clark told me today they had 17FB brass on order since 2013. The only way to get brass is buy loaded rounds if you can find any or make it from expensive 221FB cases. No case conversion dies available at the moment. So really I don't see much difference but that's half the fun of having something different.

[17 squirrel]

Yes Dogge it's a 17-30 carbine. I think the case capacity is 17g water also think the 17fb is 22 and the 17hh 12. Also it uses the mini hornet action not the 222/223 action. I form the cases in a Lee turret press so three pulls of the handle gives the equivalent to a fired case ready for f/l sizing. I got 500 new cases made by three different manufacture for under £150 try doing that with f/b or h/h

Dogfox if you want forming dies for 17 F/b either from .221 f/b or .222/.223 give todd a ring at the woodchuck den i am pretty sure he will have thet on the shelf.

[dogfox1]

"Dogfox if you want forming dies for 17 F/b either from .221 f/b or .222/.223 give todd a ring at the woodchuck den i am pretty sure he will have thet on the shelf. "

Hi 17 Squirrel many thanks for that, already been promised some forming dies to be here in the UK, in about 7 to 10 days from esle where.

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[The_Dogge]

Yes Dogge it's a 17-30 carbine. I think the case capacity is 17g water also think the 17fb is 22 and the 17hh 12. Also it uses the mini hornet action not the 222/223 action. I form the cases in a Lee turret press so three pulls of the handle gives the equivalent to a fired case ready for f/l sizing. I got 500 new cases made by three different manufacture for under £150 try doing that with f/b or h/h

Dogfox if you want forming dies for 17 F/b either from .221 f/b or .222/.223 give todd a ring at the woodchuck den i am pretty sure he will have thet on the shelf.

That's a nice capacity, and you make some good points about the light action and low cost parent brass.

Where did you get the forming dies for that?

Who is going to chamber a barrel for it? I imagine reamers for that calibre are not easily available either.

[17 squirrel]

The dies are all Hornady. The reamer, go/ngo gauges are PTG. All together with customs charges ect it all cost about £557.00. Who will i get to do it. Mike at Brock and Norris.

[dogfox1]

Hi,

 

Update on the rimfire replacement

 

Finally decided to go with a 17 Rem Fireball. Using 20grn Vmax bullets for starters loaded with Trail Boss looking for a sweet spot between 1400 to 2400 fps and a good sound moderator.

 

Currently forming cases at the moment from US 223 military cases, a little more work, have had them on the shelf for years and cost nothing so decide to use them. No sign of any 17FB cases becoming available in the short term.

 

Thank for all the help on the way.

 

G