Mark Jones Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Strange question but my vmax 87 grn are not producing exits on fox front end shots even broadside and missing the shoulder. I know they are a BT round but thought using the heavier ones I may get exit? Shooting @ 170-250yds not a problem but if going to use on small deer would like an exit just in case, (although not strictly necessary with end result) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Mark, they are a varmint bullet and not designed to exit. I would not recommend them for deer. Select a suitable bullet such as the hornady SST if you want a ballistic tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banus02 Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 you are driving them too fast drop down 1or2 grains and they will be fine for your needs speed opens them up very quickly slow them down and they act like a soft point.mine are driven at 2700 out of 20inch 243.anything past 80 yards they act like a soft point closer in act like a grenade with no exit on fox.munty and roe. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Jones Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Thanks scotch egg, Didn't expect the 55 grn to exit but thought a 87 of the same construction might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Jones Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 you are driving them too fast drop down 1or2 grains and they will be fine for your needs speed opens them up very quickly slow them down and they act like a soft point.mine are driven at 2700 out of 20inch 243.anything past 80 yards they act like a soft point closer in act like a grenade with no exit on fox.munty and roe. good luck.That makes sense as I did get a good exit on a 300 yard fox, may try slowing them a bit, many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Mark,As Scotch egg-the v max design is a (US Small) varmint design initsconstruction,and is meant to penetrate just a little (think squirrel size gophers) then fragment violently,without an exit,transfering all the energy to the varmint. See Hornady's site for their descriptions. Such bullets are just not suitable for larger critters than fox,especially when going fast,as pointed out. Definitely not "small" deer. Answer is as Scotch-chose a bullet designed for the quarry-ballistic tip etc is largely irrelevant-the tip is to look good and marginally improve bullets BC. Nothing wrong with the right BTs for the job,though. There are plenty of UK tried bullets,in 243 and probably some more will be recommended,though those suitable for large red/sika stags are edging towards too penetrative for 'small deer'. US shooters really don't have 'small deer' on their menu....nor Europeans....if you mean smaller than roe. The Soft Point design used to do a good job,and still does,in the 80-90g bracket. Bottom line,bullet construction and design (for terminal performance on appropriate size game) should be the consideration.Penetration to heart region,then expansion/fragmentation-exit isn't essential...indeed,a through and through is often undesireable. Varmint bullets are for small varmints,and can give unsatisfactory performance (bad wounds) on larger,tougher animals....which is a double whammy to animal and hunter. Plenty of readily available suitable bullets for the excellent for purpose 243,but not the Vmax for a reliable,humane bullet here....as you have found ! Good shooting. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plonker dave Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I know it doesn't answer the vmax question but I always have an exit with 85gr bthp on the smaller deer species. If slowing down does not help your situation then as an alternative try the sierra 85gr hollowpoint. good luck Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swatty Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I'm with plonker Dave on this Sierra 85 hpbt are an awesome all rounder exits on everything small roe included and seam to kill red deer for fun I can honestly say that this bullet has changed the way I think about 243 win from hating the round for not being enough gun for red stags to having no hesitation to take a shot even close to dense forestry blocks they don't make thirty yards with engine room shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Jones Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Thanks for the feedback, gives me something's to go and try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Mark, consider:(all commercial loads for deer: Federal 85g Sierra Game KIng Bullet load- "game' not varmint-prob best to start . Nosler 85g Partition Hornady SST 80g Soft Points from Remington,Winchester, 80g PowrLokt HP from Remington All these -and the 95g loads -are suited to larger deer,and there are the Norma loads,with recommendations for Euro game inc roe;or even budget Privi Partizan may be adequate. gbal gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckhurstBen Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I stopped using 75gn Vmax in the .243 for the same reason, had too many blow up on foxes noses and shoulders. No one yet has mentioned the Berger 87gn vld which I think is a superb 6mm hunting bullet (when you can get hold of them). Never had a fox run using them and great on deer. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 No one yet has mentioned the Berger 87gn vld which I think is a superb 6mm hunting bullet (when you can get hold of them). Never had a fox run using them and great on deer. Ben I've been using the Berger 87g hunting Vld's out of a 6/284 on fox and sika for a couple of years and had the same experiences as Ben, certainly never had one not perform as needed. Devastating on fox, always exits even at very close range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckhurstBen Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 What velocity are you pushing them at Steve for how much powder? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapua Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 I stopped using 75gn Vmax in the .243 for the same reason, had too many blow up on foxes noses and shoulders. No one yet has mentioned the Berger 87gn vld which I think is a superb 6mm hunting bullet (when you can get hold of them). Never had a fox run using them and great on deer. Ben Really, are you saying that 75gn of lead/copper driven fast enough to make it blow up will not kill a thin skinned animal like a fox humanely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckhurstBen Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Yeh, before I was put onto berger Vld's a few years ago by paddy I used to regularly have to finish off foxes that weren't dead when shot with a Vmax, many a time you'd get to one and it's face or jaw would be mushed up but would still be breathing or would blow a shoulder off and the thing would run and to shoot it a few days later still alive. Mate of mine also uses the 85gn Sierra game king and raves about them. Don't get me wrong tho Ballistic tiped bullets are great for head shooting deer in the park. Ben Edited to add the .20 caliber ballistic tiped heads especially the 39gn Bk seem to work a lot better than the 6mm variants. Perhaps the smaller diameter penetrates better before expanding I'm not sure but had a lot less foxes run, shot with the .204R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 What velocity are you pushing them at Steve for how much powder? Ben I have to say I share Lapua view for a well placed shot on fox, but I'm guessing that's only because I've never experienced it... 3560 fps / 55.7g N560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckhurstBen Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 That's impressive Steve. For sure a well placed shot will do the job everytime, all the experiences I'v had with Vmax's blowing up are out lamping under less than perfect conditions. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dogge Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 I have to say I share Lapua view for a well placed shot on fox, but I'm guessing that's only because I've never experienced it... 3560 fps / 55.7g N560 Me too, a shot into a foxes jaw from the side will cause a nasty injury whatever the bullet, I would be most surprised if a fox's jaw stopped a 75gn v-max which was heading for its brain. Same with the shoulder, I can see it happening with a glancing shot, I can't see a shoulder stopping a v-max which was heading for the middle. That is an impressive speed, but isn't N560 a bit slow for a 75gn bullet? Viht data only lists it for 87gn to 105gn, though they don't give a great range of bullets. Also your gunsmith must love the idea of using that load, the spreadsheet on accurateshooter.com estimates a barrel life of 763 rounds! 8¬0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckhurstBen Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 SteveW is using N560 with 87gn Vld's, agreeded barrel life doesn't sound that good but I bet they're pretty flat out 300. When you shoot 200+ foxes a year you get to see all kinds of terminal bullet results, I personally like foxes to be dead first shot. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 SteveW is using N560 with 87gn Vld's, agreeded barrel life doesn't sound that good but I bet they're pretty flat out 300. When you shoot 200+ foxes a year you get to see all kinds of terminal bullet results, I personally like foxes to be dead first shot. Ben Indeed they are...that is pretty much 240 WM performance (BC .328,87g pointed expanding bullets @ 3523 26" barrel) drop/drift in inches,10mph wind: 100y +.7/.7 200y 0/3.1 300y -4.7/7.3 400y -15.3/13.6 So around a 5 inch drop at 300 with 200 zero,and retained energy around 1300 ft lb.(243 WSSM is in this club too). With appropriate construction bullets,that should suffice...with a margin to spare. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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