Any .17 WSM Rimfire owners out there??

[chaz]

chaz,

most field grade factory rimfires will barely hold 1 moa at 100y;and a 5 mph wind fluctuation could easily add as much (a 10 mph wind will drift a 17HMR 3.4inches at 100,so an understimate/change of 5 mph means nearly 2 inches for that shot): the 17 WSM will still be vulnerable at least an inch if that wind isn't read right.

 

As you say,the only worthwhile test is to shoot on a calm day,with good rifle support,and a decent sample-as you did.

 

Your ' shooting in 'regime seems fine-and some rifles take a while to settle.

 

As you are probably aware,there isn't much well controlled comparative test shooting on this cartridge as yet...

 

Good that otherwise,the rifle seems to fit.....

 

gbal

 

Thanks for the imput George. I have been told on a US forum that it can take up to 100 rounds, before the groups get tighter. I suppose i'm a little pissed, as the purpose of buying it, was the fact that it was capable out to 200 yards on small game.

I'm beginning to think a nice 17 Remingtom, may have been the way to go....

I'll update when i can get a nice calm day to try it out again.

Cheers.

Chaz.

[simonl]

Have a google of 'barrel tuning'. And YouTube too.

If the bullet is exiting at a point where the muzzle is whizzing around you can't get good groups. Reloaders can change bullet speed by altering charge to hit the sweet spot. Rimfire doesn't allow that so you can use a weight on the barrel to alter the harmonics. Trying without the mod might work. If not the get some strips of lead and a jubilee clip.... And some more ammo!

Keep us posted and good luck

[chaz]

Have a google of 'barrel tuning'. And YouTube too.

If the bullet is exiting at a point where the muzzle is whizzing around you can't get good groups. Reloaders can change bullet speed by altering charge to hit the sweet spot. Rimfire doesn't allow that so you can use a weight on the barrel to alter the harmonics. Trying without the mod might work. If not the get some strips of lead and a jubilee clip.... And some more ammo!

Keep us posted and good luck

Thanks for the tips Simon.

I've been out twice now, today being the second time. After the breaking in period, i'm really getting to like the rifle. I've now put 75 rounds through it, and can't wait to go out again. It's pure paper punching at the moment though, to get used to the gun, and the bullet drop. The rear lugs were a little odd to start with, but i'm now used to it and can cycle the gun quickly. Closing the bolt is still a little stiff, but is getting a little easier...The trigger is very nice indeed. It's also very loud without a moderator! The stock is perfect for my eye enlignment, especially as i have the Leupold VX-L, with that weird lower cut-out, which suits it great.

My groups at distances over 100 yards were opening up, but i think the little 20 grainer was getting blown about a bit in the shifting breeze. That's the only drawback as regards accuracy so far. Although i did manage a 9 shot group at 100 yards at just a inch.

I've never been a fan of rotary magazines, and i'm still not! It did get easier to load after 50 or so rounds though. I hate the flimsy latch that clips the magazine in place. You really have to ram it home. Only time will tell if the catch can take continued use. Especially if paper punching...

The drop data on the ammo box (Hornady 20 V-Max) is way out though. It states that if the gun is zero'd at 100 yards, the drop is 1.2" at 150 yards. After 8 shots, i made it an average of 2.5", give or take a little.

It was the same with regard to the statistics given at 200 yards. The drop stated it was 4.1". I fired 7 shots at 200 yards, and discounting 2 flyers, i made the drop approximately 6". Not sure why that was? Experienced shooters by all means enlighten me if i've missed something??

I also checked all the used brass cases closely with an l.e.d magnifying glass. I found 6 with issues. 5 had the very start of a split neck, maybe 1mm at the most. But the one had a split down the entire length of the neck. Very minute, and hard to see, but split none the less. Just to point out, all 16 boxes of my ammo have the same batch number.

I took a few pictures of my groupings, but will add them tomorrow, as i'm too knackered now.

Cheers.

Chaz.

[simonl]

Reasons for the drop data being different...

1- your zero at 100 might be a bit out. It doesn't say an inch high at 100 on the box by any chance?

2- I've never achieved hornady claimed speeds. I doubt anyone has.

3- drop data is only good for a specific scope height, yours may be different to their nominal

[chaz]

Reasons for the drop data being different...

1- your zero at 100 might be a bit out. It doesn't say an inch high at 100 on the box by any chance?

2- I've never achieved hornady claimed speeds. I doubt anyone has.

3- drop data is only good for a specific scope height, yours may be different to their nominal

Fair point. Thanks Simon.

[Gixer750pilot]

Hi Chaz and the forum,

 

I came across this post when just having a random google about b.mags so I have joined the forum.

 

I waited month for a B-mag target to arrive to my local gun shop Dauntsey Rifles, it arrived just as the weather got bad and the clocks changed so I have not had a chance to really put it through its paces but I have shot one box of ammo and its grouping 1" at 100yds which is all I can expect.

 

I have shot a few rabbits at well over 130 yds and I have to say its very flat and the 20 grain Hornady are explosive on a central head shot. not for the faint hearted but very humane.

 

ndont be put off by people who have only read crap on the old forums going back 3 years, the latest rifle seems very good especially with the boyds stocks like what we have. The Trigger is superb.

 

Dauntsey Guns in Wiltshire just had another 160 boxes of ammo arrive and will be supporting this rifle for sure.

 

check out Cavedweller1959 on Youtube, he had a video on there call "how to make it shoot straight" on how to bed the stock with epoxy and shoots a 4 shot group less that 1/2" @ 100yds. I've def going to do it to mine once I've shot it some more so I have a fair comparison.

 

what I will tell you is do not dry fire this rifle. my CZ 455 can be dry fired and most modern rifles can be dry fired, but I noticed that some of the spent cases has a score along the whole of one side. on closer inspection it was caused by a burr on the breach, caused by the firing pin striking it. my CZ his an internal stop before this happens. im going to carefully remove it but its worth checking yours. it looks like a detent but only half of one.

 

I have also sanded the stock to remove some of the square corners above the trigger and to make it easier to lift the bolt in the dark with cold hands as the bolt knob sits very close to the wood with no room to get a finger under it. I just need to lacquer it.

 

I hope you have success with it, I cant wait to get out with mine more. I see not reason for it not to be a sub 1 moa rifle with a little bit of fettling.

 

Hope to chat more on this forum, it looks good, and I already recognize a few names for youtube.

 

Chris

[Gixer750pilot]

Have a google of 'barrel tuning'. And YouTube too.

If the bullet is exiting at a point where the muzzle is whizzing around you can't get good groups. Reloaders can change bullet speed by altering charge to hit the sweet spot. Rimfire doesn't allow that so you can use a weight on the barrel to alter the harmonics. Trying without the mod might work. If not the get some strips of lead and a jubilee clip.... And some more ammo!

Keep us posted and good luck

 

Richard Utting on Youtube swears that barrel tuners work. he uses the rubber type and slides it up and down until it finds the sweet spot. I may try one as they are only £14 roughly.

[Gixer750pilot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX1XQzobtcI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et9WMKCa4cU

[Andrew]

A friend of mine has the B-Mag and is somewhat underwhelmed. He has never gotten the 3000 fps, hovering around the mid 27's. I wanted one of the actions, way back when, to rebarrel to 5mm Remington Magnum but then opted for a Thompson Center carbine barrel for my Contender G-1 frame: This gives me the option of shooting 5mm Craig (a CF version of the 5mm RF that was used in a CF conversion of the Remington 591M and 592M rifles) or the rim fire round. All done with the flip of a lever. I am getting 2557fps with Centurion/Aguila 30 grain varminters. It will unzip a prairiedog of rabbit at 150 yards.

 

FWIW, the 17 Winchester round operates at the same pressures as the current 5mm Remington Magnum. About 33K psi.~Andrew

[chaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX1XQzobtcI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et9WMKCa4cU

I have taken his advice, (good or bad) and bedded the rifle as he did, around the 3 milled out rings. Although, i did dremel a very small amount out of the rear tang area, and filled the inner parts of the of the trigger group with putty, so i knew it would release ok. As for making it more accurate, i'm still not convinced.... Although i am convinced, it must help with consistency...

I'll try and up-load a few recent groups i shot...

Just to add, it made its first kill the other day with ease. Although it was on a rabbit full of mixy. It was ranged at 122 yards. I also took a squirrel at 10 yards, although i could only use the back end for the food pot as it destroyed it!!

Anyhow, hopefully some pics....

These shots were somewhat concealed by a small copice, and from memory the brezze was only 4-5 mph.

And due to the layout were around 110 yards, give or take 1.

I was advised to take this picture, after 3-4 shots with the moderator off, to get an idea, of whether the crown was ok(ish). The soot marks look even enough, but it's not exactly a scientific test....

I shot 4 groups that day, without any cleaning, and to be honest the barrel looked disgusting! However, the best groups, (from memory were the last) The worst group of all was 1.28 inches, of a full 8 mag group.

I appreciate the best group was only a 7 shot group. Nothing dishonest here, i took pot shots at numerous things during my time out due to the boredom of shooting paper targets, i'e clumps of mud and the like...

Any Gun Smiths out there, that would be able to give even a basic opinion of the crown soot markings would be appreciated...

Cheers

Chaz

[chaz]

As my last paragraph requests, some professional help/opinions from some qualified Smiths out there would be appreciated very much. As would an opinion or 2 on the shooting groups I've made would be good.....

I've heard people say rim-fires shoot better when dirty, say after 20 fired shots or so. By the same token, I've heard others say a clean kept barrel is best?? Opinions again would be appreciated. My personal experience of the .22 LR Rim-Fire, is that it does shoot more accurate after 10-20 rounds through it, after a thorough clean....

Thanks.

Chaz.

[gbal]

Chaz,As I've suggested before,1 inch at 100y may well be the precision potential of this rifle and ammo.That is not poor by field grade rimfire standards.

 

22rfs may benefit from a very occasional ,but tend then to need 20+shots to restore accuracy. This is not of course to be taken as saying they need cleaned after every time they are shot (as befits a cf rifle).Many 22rfs are never barrel cleaned-I don't recall the very accurate BSA Martini action 22s used in 25 y indoor shooting being cleaned at all despite quite heavy use-yet still shot 'possibles'100/100. There is of course no copper fouling in 22rf.

 

gbal

[chaz]

Chaz,As I've suggested before,1 inch at 100y may well be the precision potential of this rifle and ammo.That is not poor by field grade rimfire standards.

 

22rfs may benefit from a very occasional ,but tend then to need 20+shots to restore accuracy. This is not of course to be taken as saying they need cleaned after every time they are shot (as befits a cf rifle).Many 22rfs are never barrel cleaned-I don't recall the very accurate BSA Martini action 22s used in 25 y indoor shooting being cleaned at all despite quite heavy use-yet still shot 'possibles'100/100. There is of course no copper fouling in 22rf.

 

gbal

Fair point ref the .22 rf's only getting fouled by lead George.

And thanks for the other parts of the reply. Apologies if I've already asked this George, but do you think that due to the WSM having a copper jacket, it should be cleaned "properly", as in removing the copper fouling as well as the lead, after each session?

I ask, as with my .223, sometimes i only put a couple of rounds through it during a shooting session, so after the gun acclimatizes to room/cabinet temp, i usually just run a bore snake through it most of the time and lock it away.... Then, after a while, i give it a thorough copper/lead cleaning.

Cheers

Chaz.

[gbal]

Chaz,you have a ggod point.Copper is unlikely to do a lot of good for accuracy.

Perhaps it's a 'try and see' for this carridge/rifle...if it shoots better after a copper/lead clean,fine.....if it neeeds another 20 rounds to sort it out...? inconvenient! One or two 'fouling shots' might be tolerable,of course.

 

Test shoot with/without cleaning....obviously...and see if there is a meaningful difference.

It's just possible velocity has some role-and the 17WSM is in rather uncharted waters-in UK-for a rf cartridge with copper jacket,unless Andrew in Montana has more experience cleaning regimes......?

 

g

[chaz]

Chaz,you have a ggod point.Copper is unlikely to do a lot of good for accuracy.

Perhaps it's a 'try and see' for this carridge/rifle...if it shoots better after a copper/lead clean,fine.....if it neeeds another 20 rounds to sort it out...? inconvenient! One or two 'fouling shots' might be tolerable,of course.

 

Test shoot with/without cleaning....obviously...and see if there is a meaningful difference.

It's just possible velocity has some role-and the 17WSM is in rather uncharted waters-in UK-for a rf cartridge with copper jacket,unless Andrew in Montana has more experience cleaning regimes......?

 

g

Cheers George.

When i get a good day i intend on firing a 4-5 shot group with a dirty barrel, then a group after just a few pulls through with a bore snake. Then a thorough copper/lead field clean with a rod, brush, and jag using "Wipe-out Patch-out" before the last group. Then see where we are after that.

On observation a few days back, after firing around 20 shots, the bore was shockingly dirty, even for such a small calibre.

I also intend to put a few rounds through my Chronograph, and such how much truth there is, in the 3000 fps. Being cold i doubt it will hit the 3000 fps anyhow.

After the test, i''ll gather the data, and put some pics up for folks to see.

Cheers.

Chaz.

Just to add, despite it not meeting my somewhat possible over the top expectations, the more i shoot it, the more i love using it! Which is a good thing i suppose....

[gbal]

Chaz, there you go!

I'm sure a reasonably carried out test/comparison will be of interest.

Just to complicate-Bench Rest 100y accuracy shooters nearly always fire a fouling shot or two down their immaculate barrels,before going onto the targets to count......but will clean beween 5 shots to count targets.....

 

F class at 600+ likewise fire a couple of 'blow off' shots as foulers first,though tend not to clean between.

 

Small bores have always had a reputation for fouling more-sub calibres like 17 especially-but that may have reflected early barrels being a tad rougher....and premium BR barrels clean eaier (copper) than do factory barrels in same calibre.

 

Field shooting is something of an equaliser-that;s why 1moa rf at 100y is adequate (precision is what the rig/ammo is 'physically' capable of;accuracy is what detriments the shooter adds in....considerable in the field!)

 

What became the criterion for me was not kills,but minimal non kills (10rabbits + 1non kill was unacceptably inferior to 5 and no non kills).That meant a cf 222/17rem from 75y absolute max,and although rfs are a better now,they still should not be stretched-they do not retain accuracy so well.

 

gbal

[stillair1]

Hi Chas, the stiff bolt on lock down is due to the fact that it cocks the bolt on the downward stroke according to a review in sporting rifle.

[chaz]

Hi Chas, the stiff bolt on lock down is due to the fact that it cocks the bolt on the downward stroke according to a review in sporting rifle.

Thanks stillair1, I've not been out to carry out any more tests as we've had a death in the family, plus the weather been crap.

I will do it soon though, that's for sure!

[chaz]

Hi Chas, the stiff bolt on lock down is due to the fact that it cocks the bolt on the downward stroke according to a review in sporting rifle.

Thanks stillair1, I've not been out to carry out any more tests as we've had a death in the family, plus the weathers been crap.

I will do it soon though, that's for sure!

[chaz]

Just a snippet -

I weighed 100 rounds Hornady .17 WSM 20 grain V-Max from the same batch today, via my Hornady GS 1500 Electronic Scale.

A little deflating.......

Over the 100 rounds (2 boxes) there were 9 different weight groups.

They started at 62.3 grains and ended at a maximum of 63.2 grains. Almost 1 whole grain. Is that not a lot for such a small round?

In group quantity, there were groups of 2, 4, 7, 17, 16, 18, 17, 2, and 17. I've not done many comparisons for some time. But it does seem quite a spread!

I'm hoping to carry out some rim thickness comparisons tomorrow, to see how they compare.... But all in all quite disappointing, wouldn't you say??

Cheers

Chaz.

[chaz]

Didn't get round to being able to measure rim thickness accurately. However, weighing the ammo, and shooting them in batches has improved things quite a bit. As has keeping the bore clean. Not an issue if out vermin shooting as you don't tend to shoot that much ammo. But doing a little target/group practice, a bore snake comes in handy every 10-15 shots.

All in all, it would seem to be more of an ammo issue, than the gun. But until another brand hits the UK, i'll keep on with batch weighing...

Certainly don't regret buying the gun any longer thought, so that's a good thing....

Chaz.

[Gixer750pilot]

Thanks Chas that's nice to know . Going by YouTube the American eagle or the 25 grain hornady is better but I can't seem to find either here yet . So fingers crossed

[chaz]

Thanks Chas that's nice to know . Going by YouTube the American eagle or the 25 grain hornady is better but I can't seem to find either here yet . So fingers crossed

Going on your location you should be familiar with Dauntsey Guns. Probably the best RFD i've ever used. Was there the other week with a friend who was buying a full .17 HMR set-up. His first gun on FAC. Anyway, i had a chat with Colin and Clinton about any people having issues with accuracy coming back to them. Both said no, but as Colin pointed out, at the moment we are stuck with the 20 grain Hornady V-Max. So until then it's a case of waiting. And i feel it'll be quite a wait...

Have you heard of any other dealers with any other brands on there way to them?

Cheers

Chaz.

[chaz]

Thanks Chas that's nice to know . Going by YouTube the American eagle or the 25 grain hornady is better but I can't seem to find either here yet . So fingers crossed

Going on your location you should be familiar with Dauntsey Guns. Probably the best RFD i've ever used. Was there the other week with a friend who was buying a full .17 HMR set-up. His first gun on FAC. Anyway, i had a chat with Colin and Clinton about any people having issues with accuracy coming back to them. Both said no, but as Colin pointed out, at the moment we are stuck with the 20 grain Hornady V-Max. So until then it's a case of waiting. And i feel it'll be quite a wait...

Have you heard of any other dealers with any other brands on there way to them?

Cheers

Chaz.

[njc110381]

I'd be interested to read your follow ups to this. It looks like an interesting round. Not something I would buy after my experience with HMR, but that's not to say it's not a good choice for you.

 

I like .17's but tend to go for centrefires. I've had both the Hornady and the Ackley Hornet, and have just had a .17 Rem made. I like the reloading aspect.

 

When I first saw the round I thought to myself "if only they made this in .22... we could have a semi auto then and that would be interesting!