17 rem

[Hem88]

Any one know where I can get 17 or18 grain bullet heads as want a light safe load for rabbits or am I going the wrong way advise needed

[srvet]

20 grain Vmax are pretty explosive and are not too bad to get hold of. I would keep the velocity up rather than down as this should ensure fragmentation

[gbal]

Hem,there may still be specialist bullet makers producing sub 20g bullets in 17cal,suitable for the delightful 17Rem.

Todd Kindler (The Woodchuck Den) in the USA used to stock,but you probably can't now get them sent out of USA.I think Berger did some too-my experience was that you had to keep velocity modest,lest they simply disintegrate in flight...which perhaps reduces the attraction as less ricochet prone.

Any bullet can ricochet ,of course,so nothing can be relied on,and is certainly no substitute for a very good backstop.

I did find the 17Rem -usually with 25g bullets-a superb rabbit combination,very consistent to 250y,absolutely on the spot terminal performance,minimal carcass damage (massive internal hyrostatic shock though-all the energy of the fragile bullet transfered-usually no exit).

 

I do not believe that lighter bullets (especially going a bit slower-and se above for the downside of uber velocity) would be demonstrably 'safer',though good to consider the issue.Safe backstop is the criterion for any shot (ricochet is very unpredictable under 'normal' field shooting terrain,and few can have 'measured' it-but experience is very informative,and I'm sure other users will share theirs.

 

MIne was that the standard 25g just under 4000fps was excellent.It has quite a sharp report,but of course moderates OK.Bullets are rather light jacket for immediate impact-which is delivered on small targets,as safely as anything else-perhaps better than some other cartridges.Essentially,the 17 rem is a 223 necked down (and yes,afficionadoesI know it's more the 222rem mag necked down-but who has experience of that excellent cartridge-point is performance is in that class;the 17 is probably a tad 'safer'-though backstop should make all cartridges in the class 'as safe as is possible'.

 

I doubt that slightly reduced capacity cartridges like the 17Fireball would show much difference,no doubt users will comment on that too.

Hope this helps-as said,I'd just as soon use the 25g,though my shooting locations were near ideal for the cartridge. If not,another " lighter " cartridge, like the Hornet (nothing like as good though,partly because modern bullets were not available then). 17 Hornet might temp me now-but the 17rem holds up well.

gbal

[Vermincinerator]

Norman Clark has pulled HMR 17grn bullets but as has been said why, i use 20grn V-Max out of my Fireball at just over 3920fps, this is my vermin load for everything except when i am out foxing when i use my 223.

 

Ian.

[Toby]

I was given some Berger 18 grain varmint HP. I havent tried them yet, just shot Berger and Hornady 25 HP, with excellent terminal performance on fox and corvids.

[MachIV]

I have found both 20gn and 25gn V-Max to be excellent out of my Mack IV (Fireball) running at around 3,800 and 3,600 respectively. Usually no exit especially with the 20gn V-Max even on 2/3rd grown rabbits.

 

I found the hollow points a different beast altogether, both Hornady and Berger 25gn, they have always exited on rabbits in my experience.

 

As a consequence I tend to use V-Max for rabbits and the hollow points for foxes.

[triggersqueezer]

I have found both 20gn and 25gn V-Max to be excellent out of my Mack IV (Fireball) running at around 3,800 and 3,600 respectively. Usually no exit especially with the 20gn V-Max even on 2/3rd grown rabbits.

 

I found the hollow points a different beast altogether, both Hornady and Berger 25gn, they have always exited on rabbits in my experience.

 

As a consequence I tend to use V-Max for rabbits and the hollow points for foxes.

 

very interesting ,i'm off out with the 25 berger tonight in the fireball.from the 17 hornet i never had a 20 v max exit and was hoping for the same from berger.tonight will tell.

[garyw]

Henry krank have some 17gn in stock they look like .17 hmr fodder i was lucky and given 100 to try- shot them in a .17fb and in the .17rem both shot good tight groups more than good enough for bunny bashing`so went back and bought a "few" more at the price they are a steal.

[Guesty]

I use the Kranks 17gn Vmax bullets in my Hornet and get sub MOA at an easy 3800fps. For me it shoots better than the Hornady 20gn Vmax.

Combined with PPU brass and Murom primers I'm getting HMR+ performance for sub HMR money.

Great for vermin, but probably not ideal for fox though.

[gunner]

I had a look at Kranks yesterday and they had a 17 grain soft point by "best value bullets" ? are these the ones your talking about ? Would be very interest in some .17cal - 17 grain Vmax or Btip for next project ? I will phone them tomorrow i think - cheers

[Guesty]

Yup, that's them. They appear to be 17gn Vmax boat tailed bullets with gold coloured plastic tips a la Remington HMR ammo.

They are only £5.50 per 100, so my loaded rounds are under 16 pence each.

I'd imagine a 17 Rem should get them up beyond 4500fps if they can hold together.

[gunner]

Yup, that's them. They appear to be 17gn Vmax boat tailed bullets with gold coloured plastic tips a la Remington HMR ammo.

They are only £5.50 per 100, so my loaded rounds are under 16 pence each.

I'd imagine a 17 Rem should get them up beyond 4500fps if they can hold together.

Ha thats pretty insane speeds -love it ! thanks

[gbal]

Interesting-as I said,the earlier 18 g Bergers disintegrated in flight at "4500+".... estimated....

 

The Krank 17 bullets are made by the 'Value Bullet Co' and are listed as SP (soft point-no photo? maybe it should be HP??)-it's unlikely they can be any vmax /

resprays/ballistic tip etc;or 17 vmax Hornet bullets , at the price. BC will in any case be very low indeed-which is the downside to 17 velocity-it goes fast,both senses.

That does not mean they are not adequate for some purposes,economy being one.

Field reports should be interesting.

gbal

[Guesty]

Guys over on Saubier have done some testing and they were still good at 4300fps, though I'd image some barrels might be better than others.

I'll post some photos when I get home later in the week, but I'd be very surprised if they are not Hornady Vmax. They have the gold coloured plastic tip and a boat tail which should both aid BC a bit, but it's still probably only a shade better than a shuttlecock!

Perhaps the low price might be due to the HMR connection? They could be seconds, but I weighed a batch and they were all the same 17.2gn IIRC, and length and diameter measurements were similar consistency to any other .172" bullets. Years ago these bullets were used with the now discontinued Eley Mach2 ammo. Perhaps they are old supplies?

I ran the ballistics through Strelok from the alleged online BC at 3800fps, and I should be getting HMR muzzle performance at around 150 yards. I bagged a left and right rabbit at 165 yards when testing, and the terminal performance was graphically humane with a notable 'whump' in impact.

[gbal]

Thank,Guesty....clearly they are not SP (soft points),and the 'whump/humane ' is reassuring !

 

In !7HMR,Rem had a 17g AccuTip V,and Winchester a 17g PolyTip Vmax (as well as Hornady and CCI with the real Mcoy V-Max): all these claiming BC about .125...and you are right,the Eley 17g Mach2 might well be it (and H/E/CCI loadings). The very rare 17g Aguila was HP.

But the "Value Bullet Co" may have actually 'c/kranked' some out,as per Alpin,H&N etc.for retail outlets.

 

In 17 rem,I'd expect about 5x HMR energy at 200y-needed or not. A different beast !

 

g

[The_Dogge]

Guys over on Saubier have done some testing and they were still good at 4300fps,...

I ran the ballistics through Strelok from the alleged online BC at 3800fps, and I should be getting HMR muzzle performance at around 150 yards. I bagged a left and right rabbit at 165 yards when testing, and the terminal performance was graphically humane with a notable 'whump' in impact.

Nice, could you point me to your load data, Saubier seems hard to navigate and I cant find online data for a 17gn in 17Remington.

Thanks

[Guesty]

Mine is a 17HH and with the 17gn Vmax loaded long to 1.740" I load 10.2gn Vit N110 to 3840fps on a 20c day.

I get no pressure signs but do work up carefully.

I suspect Lilgun might be a good match too.

[The_Dogge]

ah right, understood, I thought you had a sweet light load for a Rem.

 

I actually have a small pile of 17gn v max due to all the split neck cases from the HMR, I was wondering how they would go from the Rem, but thought it was too much fuss to try as I didn't have many, but if they are generally available at that price, it may be worth finding out!

[gunner]

Spoke to them today they have thousands i may have to try some - but rifle aint even been started yet

[activeviii]

Spoke to them today they have thousands i may have to try some - but rifle aint even been started yet

So how much is the postage going to be Timbo?

[gbal]

So how much is the postage going to be Timbo?

"Expanding missiles" ...? 'Vmax' klones ('klone' is like clone ...but 'not proven')

[gunner]

He didn't say about postage cost , but said id hve to order them thru a local rfd , obviously there expanding , so will do at some point but doubt it would be more than 20 quid

[Guesty]

Proof!

 

Postage is £4.

[garyw]

Yup, that's them. They appear to be 17gn Vmax boat tailed bullets with gold coloured plastic tips a la Remington HMR ammo.

They are only £5.50 per 100, so my loaded rounds are under 16 pence each.

I'd imagine a 17 Rem should get them up beyond 4500fps if they can hold together.

i shot them in the 17rem withaload of 24.4 gns of n135 witha 20 vmax with 24.2 gns n135 i get 4230 fps so i would assume they will be about 4350+fps they do work on charlie but at sensible distance as for bunnys carnage.i know they are not vmax but probably old mach11 surplus.

[Guesty]

i shot them in the 17rem withaload of 24.4 gns of n135 witha 20 vmax with 24.2 gns n135 i get 4230 fps so i would assume they will be about 4350+fps they do work on charlie but at sensible distance as for bunnys carnage.i know they are not vmax but probably old mach11 surplus.

What's the difference between Vmax and the bullets used in Mach2? Aren't they the same thing?