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22LR Accuracy Expectation Challenge - 3 consecutive 5 shot groups - Post Photos

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TG,1066...thanks for the info and advice.

 

My old rifle went back to Edgar brothers who tested it and took it back as faulty and then gave me a new one so I had ammo left over from trying to sort that thing out. On that target c=cci, w=Winchesters, f=fiocchi and e=eleys, all hp subs. To be honest I just bought 600 eleys because cci seem very noisey and after 50 they really lose their group but eleys seem more consistent and group much better up to 100.

 

I'm really liking this thread, it's very educational and its making me feel a bit better about my .22. I'm just wondering if anyone agrees that the following could maybe be true...Generally speaking .22lr ballistics are nothing to write home about, and we're not seeing much of these bughole groups that most people have heard about, but, there is evidence to prove that it can happen. So could it just be pure coincidence that rarely somebody will get a brilliant barrel for what ever reason and just manage to find the best possible ammo for it, and these rare but existent groups are the outcome of such luck???

 

Towsey

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Fickle things, .22s.

Here's the results of Sundays attempt. In fairness the wind was nasty and they were shot at 100 metres. They are not as good as I have done sometimes in the past, but they were a fair representation of the performance on that day. Shot from bipod off a wooden bench (I suspect this doesn't help - there seems to be some vertical stringing - shall try again using a bag at some point). I have said elsewhere that I don't consider myself or the calibre up to 100m (or yards) shots at live quarry - I hate to see things run off wounded.

 

Gun is a CZ 455 20" heavy barrel in Boyds Tacticool stock with Leupold 6-20 LRT and SAK suppressor.

 

Ok - I cant resize my photos - does anyone know how with Windows 10???

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Yes, you do occasionally get a factory rifle with a particularly good barrel and sometimes you might be lucky and find the right ammunition without too much trying - However, as this thread is showing, there's an awful lot of "internet" groups.

 

And, as already be said, it's easy to pick good groups. Many people will think - My rifle/me can shoot better than that, until they actually try and put a series of groups on the same sheet.

Most "bug hole" groups you see are three shot affairs, the odd flyer dis-regarded or at some guessed distance - 70 paces might be 60 yards or it might not. About an inch might be an inch and a half.

 

Shoot some more groups with that cci ammunition from a good solid rest and see how you go. The CZ is usually a good accurate rifle but don't expect it to outperform a custom target rifle.

 

Here's a short video I made some time ago testing different ammunition at 65 yards in average field conditions - Look at the difference between Tenex and the others.

 

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRw_xDtrFc

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I make that .2135, .3385, .3385" or .6796, 1.0775, 1.0775 moa...........Ave .945 MOA.

Eley hp subs shoot tighter, but Win hp subs are my go to, the 40 grain shoot the same as the 42g.

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Towsey, as I said in the other thread - I think your rifle is fine, and I think you've got the right idea about .22s now. In the absence of pictures, I shot

 

3x5shot groups of CCI standard vel solids - av. group size 2.76" @ 100m

3x5 shot groups of Win HP Subs (42grain) - av group size 2.6" @ 100m

3x5 shot groups of Eley Edge std vel solids - av group size 1.5" @ 100m

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Towsey, as I said in the other thread - I think your rifle is fine, and I think you've got the right idea about .22s now. In the absence of pictures, I shot

 

3x5shot groups of CCI standard vel solids - av. group size 2.76" @ 100m

3x5 shot groups of Win HP Subs (42grain) - av group size 2.6" @ 100m

3x5 shot groups of Eley Edge std vel solids - av group size 1.5" @ 100m

 

Really can't understand that - I thought CZ's could shoot sub inch all day long at 100 yards. :)

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The results revealed by the honesty in this thread are truly illuminating! :)

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Standard CZ varmint barrel and a decent x14 scope the rifle was grouping around 1.5" using Eley Subs on a very windy day at the farm at a measured 100yds from sandbag supported position. I was pleased with that. Have had pretty much the same with Blaser ammo from the same gun. I remember some Winchester stuff none HP but model escapes me but came in a green box wouldn't shoot at all. Awful. Worked well in the 10/22 tho. Even the small cal stuff can be fussy I guess but then never had such issues with my .17HMR. It's what makes this hobby so good looking for that winning combo and the big grins when you find it!!

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post-15179-0-36812300-1471902810_thumb.jpeg

 

Illuminating...I like that BD ?

 

Well, be it right, wrong, or indifferent I bought these today. Never seen or heard of them I don't think but they are the most targety type ammo I can find round me. Even if they work well I don't think il use them on our furry friends but I'm just curious to see what happens

 

Towsey

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Really can't understand that - I thought CZ's could shoot sub inch all day long at 100 yards. :)

 

Mine does. Except whenever I get it on the range to test it!! :D

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Standard CZ varmint barrel and a decent x14 scope the rifle was grouping around 1.5" using Eley Subs on a very windy day at the farm at a measured 100yds from sandbag supported position. I was pleased with that. Have had pretty much the same with Blaser ammo from the same gun.

 

For the purposes of this thread, without photos of the groups, it didn't happen ;):)

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Right - I seem to have won the battle with Windows 10 (sort-of). Here are Sunday's appalling "groups". I reiterate that it was very gusty wind, and they were shot at 100m off bipod on a wooden bench, so suspect a little "bounce", but they are real-world results from a CZ 455 20" with SAK mod fitted into a Boyds stock.

post-12247-0-11172100-1471936749_thumb.jpg

post-12247-0-92911300-1471936765_thumb.jpg

post-12247-0-70916800-1471936790_thumb.jpg

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Win 40g subs, 27yrd prone, weather good only slight wind.

 

 

Very consistent with a bit of vertical stringing. I make that .74 moa.

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Great targets.

I think the step change (significant decline) seems to happen beyond 40m.

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Yep,probably three factors-precision of the rig (rifle/ammo) is not linear,and there just is more dispersal as velocity decreases (not quite like 308 (transonic) around 750 yards,or design BC in 168g;maybe closer to the light bullet varmint issue around 350y,where pure velocity begins to lose out to BC) .Secondly,Don Corleonis and his cosa nostra of ballistic bandits start to take a real interest much beyond 60m or so,and thirdly,'we' probably can't accurately generalise what a rather nice clover leaf group at 25 yrds will be at 100y.....its partly psychological -a bit like risk estimates-we are probably hard wired to be optimistic...)

 

So lets shoot a clover leaf group at 25 yards-3 shots,four if you are lucky.

Since the holes just touch tangentially,that's a (.224+.224) edge to edge,and (.448-.224) c to c =.224"

 

So we might expect (4x.224) at 100y,which is .896" -prettty close to a 10p coin

 

Not many reported groups were sub 1 inch-of course 5 shots tends to enlarge.

 

This of course assumes that there will be no added 'errors'-whether of ammo precision or shooter accuracy (wind and wobble errors),and under most field conditions that is err... optimistic.

 

And remember,this is a 'best scenario'.

 

I don't have a rabbit skull to hand,but a one inch circle does not give much scope for error...if wind error is lateral,and range error is vertical....remember,brain or close,not ears,tip of nose,lower jaw-though near misses to brain will probably do because of shock trauma.....heart shots have rather larger vital hit area-and the thorax moves about less than the head.....

 

...Ok my point is that we might be pretty pleased with our 25 yard clover leaf,but still struggle to accept it is at best,only a probably hit at 100y,under very good conditions,and seeing actual holes on paper might be a reality wake up call-even if some shots have been the expected hits.

 

As will be the actual precision of most rifles (which are not factory ammo factory test bed good),and what seems to be variable quality control in 'cheaper' ammo (more flyers than sleazyjet in the school holidays).

 

Much the same is eventually true of cfs,but they are a whole lot more reliably precise/accurate at moderate bunny ranges ,and say from 75-250y should be as reliable as the 22rf is at 50y,assuming wind is sub 10mph,and it's judgement is less than 50% out (say 4 mph max error,about 2" at 200y).

 

Any field applications assume a very high hit rate is an ethical "must have" on bunnies,but only 'more satisfying' on tin cans.

 

gbal

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Think you've hit the nail on the head - a 25yd rimfire cloverleaf, which looks awesome and tiny to eyes accustomed to 100m centrefire groups, is actually a c 1MOA group...... and a 1 MOA rimfire group at 25yds will almost certainly be be larger than 1 MOA at 50yds.

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Certainly an interesting topic. I was going to throw up a few groups yesterday at 25 yards with my FinnFire, but after shooting a couple of 10 shot cards, I didn't bother.

 

At 25 yards my rifle will take the spot out on an NSRA 2510BM:

 

21760742689_db51503914_k.jpg

 

Provided I do my part, this was the very first card I shot with the rifle after buying it from TriggerSqueezer on here.

 

For 5 shot groups, provided I get it right (my average for the Hendon league says more often than not I come close but no cigar), the rifle would be accurate enough to put 3 groups of slightly enlarged holes not touching the ring of the 10 mark. I must try and find out how big the 10 ring is in MOA.

 

What that looks like out to 100X, I have no idea, but I expect I'll take a few boxes of Centre-x and my rifle with me next time I go to the bog and give it a shot...

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TG, great shooting.

This is the kind of card that the very best shots in some clubs would post most wees,when 25 yard indoor postal competitons were widespread-I was 12 in 1955 when I got involved,but they were already well established-rifles were BSA Martinis,with aperture sights,and Eley ammo (not tenex priced,either)

I spotted for the club's best shot-easy,every shot was pretty much 'bull all away'-as are yours,ie even the centre dot was gone.

 

I think yours just misses a blotto on the centre dot on two targets. As it happens these two in the same orientation (had they been 'opposed' your group would have just been a tad above calibre (ie just greater than .224).

As is,if these ten shots had been shot onto the same one target,they all overlap,so the group would be less than one calibre,centre to centre - ie less than .224"

Can't be absolutely precise as is,but that is where it's at.... sub .224 for ten shots at 25 yards.

 

The 'bull ring' is irrelevant really-none of the shots is even close to touching it.

So lets say just sub .224 at 25y ,and a linear scale up (x4) would be an mightily impressive 100 group.

 

No pressure then,and of course all the raft of dispersants will do their thing,but it will be intersting to see how 5 shot groups at 50y and then 100y come out,if you can get a good windless day....

 

I can't imagine any 22rf 'sporting' rifle being better than this. :-)

 

g

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TG, great shooting.

This is the kind of card that the very best shots in some clubs would post most wees,when 25 yard indoor postal competitons were widespread-I was 12 in 1955 when I got involved,but they were already well established-rifles were BSA Martinis,with aperture sights,and Eley ammo (not tenex priced,either)

I spotted for the club's best shot-easy,every shot was pretty much 'bull all away'-as are yours,ie even the centre dot was gone.

 

I think yours just misses a blotto on the centre dot on two targets. As it happens these two in the same orientation (had they been 'opposed' your group would have just been a tad above calibre (ie just greater than .224).

As is,if these ten shots had been shot onto the same one target,they all overlap,so the group would be less than one calibre,centre to centre - ie less than .224"

Can't be absolutely precise as is,but that is where it's at.... sub .224 for ten shots at 25 yards.

 

The 'bull ring' is irrelevant really-none of the shots is even close to touching it.

So lets say just sub .224 at 25y ,and a linear scale up (x4) would be an mightily impressive 100 group.

 

No pressure then,and of course all the raft of dispersants will do their thing,but it will be intersting to see how 5 shot groups at 50y and then 100y come out,if you can get a good windless day....

 

I can't imagine any 22rf 'sporting' rifle being better than this. :-)

 

g

 

I think theres something about these original finnfires as my dad owns one (mine is a cut down heavy barrel, his is a hunter barrel) and his performs exactly the same. They really are astonishing rifles.

 

Will report back when possible. Not looking likely to be this week though as I'm getting keys to a new house...

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Nice shooting TG. Here's another series I shot this week - out in the field at 50 yards, off a bipod, no rear bag.

 

Top three groups (C - C) average .556" (.59, .51, .6) = 1.08moa

 

Had a bit of a tinker with the rifle and shot the lower three groups. Ave. .319" (.308, .24, .41) = .609 moa.

 

.img009_zpsljmz1shu.jpg

 

 

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