Crows Magpies

[Montey]

Intresting to read the actual facts when it comes to the law boiling it all down as B D says in his post any one can find a way of compliance.

As a tag on we farm cherrys and have to apply for a licence to shoot starlings this can be realy strait forward or extremely frustrating depending on whoe we get to deal with. One year we were told we had to demonstrate non lethal methods for 6 weeks that would have taken the length of the cherry season.

[srvet]

Rules are very simple.........use whichever caliber you have that causes them to explode in the most dramatic way possible.

Yup that's my method but usually a 17 remington

[justin credible]

Yep a 17 Remington should do just nicely

[Shuggy]

The licence covers the protection of livestock, so it would be legal to shoot magpies that are stealing your eggs.

 

And this section from the advice notes in the licence is very relevant to the discussion:

 

"People may use non-lethal methods, such as scaring and proofing, for non-natives and are encouraged to do so where this is the best solution to a problem, but these methods do not need to be shown to be ineffective or impracticable before this licence can be relied upon."

[bewsh]

I very much doubt that chickens in a back garden will be covered under "livestock"

 

Health and Safety is a good reason. Works both ways IMO

we live in this cotton wool clad world....use it to you advantage

Bird guano, nasty stuff.

 

"Protection of Flora and Fauna" specifically wild song birds is another good one

[VarmLR]

I very much doubt that chickens in a back garden will be covered under "livestock"

 

Health and Safety is a good reason. Works both ways IMO

we live in this cotton wool clad world....use it to you advantage

Bird guano, nasty stuff.

 

"Protection of Flora and Fauna" specifically wild song birds is another good one

 

Interesting...why not? They're livestock and captive, so if threatened or there's a perceived threat or eggs are being stolen, then that seems to satisfy the general licence and the corvids can be shot. Perhpas not in a back garden with a firearm unless you have a few acres to play with though

 

Bottom line is that corvid control does not require demonstrable evidence of "other means", only that YOU are satisfied that other non-lethal means are ineffective. It also doesn't mean that Larsen traps are used and then you have to transport the birds to a different site and release them, because you can reasonably argue that they might just come back anyway. Pesky homing pigeons...

[srvet]

Interesting...why not? They're livestock and captive, so if threatened or there's a perceived threat or eggs are being stolen, then that seems to satisfy the general licence and the corvids can be shot. Perhpas not in a back garden with a firearm unless you have a few acres to play with though

 

Bottom line is that corvid control does not require demonstrable evidence of "other means", only that YOU are satisfied that other non-lethal means are ineffective. It also doesn't mean that Larsen traps are used and then you have to transport the birds to a different site and release them, because you can reasonably argue that they might just come back anyway. Pesky homing pigeons...

Slightly off topic but slightly connected. It is legal to shoot dogs worrying poultry but not pheasants. I guess this suggests chickens are livestock

[VarmLR]

Slightly off topic but slightly connected. It is legal to shoot dogs worrying poultry but not pheasants. I guess this suggests chickens are livestock

The reason is simple really. Pheasants, once released from pens, are classed as wild birds, more specifically, game birds under the 1831 Game Act, which means that they are not livestock and therefore cannot belong to anyone (until shot and claimed by the landowner over who's land they lay). Captive chickens, on the other hand, are a "belonging" and the owner is entitled to protect them within the law from anything that would be detrimental to their welfare. It is legal to shoot dogs worrying livestock and that would include pheasants in their early rearing state where they are captive in pheasant pens.

[njc110381]

Any updates on this? Has the problem been sorted?

 

My first choice for magpies is always to larsen trap them. It's just so effective. You're pretty much hunting them from the moment it gets light right through the day until it's dark again. Shooting them is a challenge in an urban area.

 

I started trapping late this year due to other commitments. So far I've caught 12 in around a month. The more magpies you have the more you will catch. I barely hear them around here now. I think I've got just about every magpie that flies this way which is no bad thing!

[tisme]

At the mo I've stopped them getting the eggs but not sure how long that will last for. Bloody fox got two of the chickens yesterday so out this evening to sort that out.

[njc110381]

I had a thought some time ago about foxes and chickens. I know they're wary of cage traps but if you were to cut out a panel in the wire the same size as the opening on a fox trap, you could wire the trap into the face of the run full time for the birds to climb and s*** on and just open the door now and again? Knowing the way a fox works - walking the wire over and over until they find a weakness, I'd expect them to fall for that. With a treadle design trap you probably wouldn't even need to bait it. If you get a dead hen, chuck it in there anyway as an extra temptation.

 

Foxes don't like unfamiliar. And they don't like strange smells. Get a trap that looks like part of the run and smells like the run, I reckon they'd walk straight into it thinking it was an opportunity for an easy dinner.

[tisme]

Thanks for the thoughts. i did try a fox trap but only caught my cat. The gardens 16 acres so no problem shooting them I got one the other night but heard a vixen last night calling so I'll be out again tonight

[njc110381]

If it's in the garden, all the better. Bait station, battery PIR lamp.... Feed the foxes for a few days until they settle into a routine. Use a fine bait like dog food so they can't pick it up and leg it. Wait for the light to come on, lean out of the bedroom window and shoot it. Job done. That's if they won't just call in. If they'll fly in as soon as you squeak them then obviously that's the least labour intensive way!

[Boydy47]

Legal to shoot under the conditions of the general licences, 1,2 or 3 of which could apply, you need to read them and satisfy yourself that you're operating within them, that way you can back yourself if anyone challenges you.

 

I contacted the BASC a while back ref shooting corvids, in particular rooks, on a golf course. From memory they suggestested the protection f flora and fauna licence, could understand this for crows and magpies but seems a bit of a stretch for rooks, I'll try fish out the response. I didn't shoot any rooks in the end, just stuck to Lamping the rabbits. On the flip side I know someone who used to control Canada geese under the protection of human health licence on a golf course with a .223, due to the big piles of slippery stuff they left everywhere......

[sonic]

Boydy47 I think you may of missed the point of BASC's Flora and Fauna suggestion.

Rooks specifically damage grass whilst grubing out leather jackets therefore they are damaging the Flora i.e. the grass. perfectly legal

[joe soapy]

Slightly off topic but slightly connected. It is legal to shoot dogs worrying poultry but not pheasants. I guess this suggests chickens are livestock

Whilst it is legal, the circumstances have to be right, its not "carte blanche"

[sonic]

Actually you don't have the right to shoot dogs worrying livestock.

But a "Defence in law" should you under specific circumstances resort to shooting a dog.

Something you should consider very carefully before doing.

[VarmLR]

Whilst it is legal, the circumstances have to be right, its not "carte blanche"

 

Agreed. I checked with my local FEO about this and the answer was "yes, if a dog is attacking sheep or other livestock, you may legal defence to shoot the dog, therefore legal." Sort of true. The livestock owner's defence is tied up in the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act, 1953.

 

You have to be careful though as charges can be brought under criminal damage or trespass to goods if shooting a dog. Your defence needs to show that the dog is out of control is actively worrying or attacking/causing injury and is not running away at the time (ie it hasn't moved off). There is also a defence under the Animals Act of 1971 providing you can show that you believed the dog was worrying livestock, and had not left the vicinity or was not under anyone's control (stray).

 

It's best to avoid the need to shoot if other alternatives are available such as chasing the dog.

 

So the term "legal" assumes that all conditions are met and that you are confident that you can defend yourself under one or more of the aforementioned Acts. In these days of litigious behaviour, many dog owners may want to sue or press charges, so you really do have to be sure before you pull that trigger, if safe to do so.

[Boydy47]

Boydy47 I think you may of missed the point of BASC's Flora and Fauna suggestion.

Rooks specifically damage grass whilst grubing out leather jackets therefore they are damaging the Flora i.e. the grass. perfectly legal

 

I don't think so, I've just looked up the response, it was along the lines of the control of corvids would be okay as I could 'honestly say that I was carrying it out to protect songbirds', no mention of flora. Obviously the argument stands up for carrion crows, jackdaws and magpies but not rooks.

 

I had asked directly if the greens would be covered by the Flora and Fauna licence due to the damage to the grass and the response was that the licence could be relied on as I was protecting birds, NOT the greens, from that I could only surmise that the flora argument was at best not water tight. Also the Flora and Fauna GL is listed as 'licence to take or kill birds for conservation purposes' which to my mind means conservation of native birds, plants and animals, not an artificially reared and managed grass, perhaps additional clarification on the licence itself would help in this respect. Possibly just semantics but as the course is next to a nature reserve run by the local wildlife trust and always covered in golfers in the day I decided to err on the side of caution and stick with lamping their rabbits at night!

 

As I said in my post above it is up to the shooter to satisfy themselves that they are acting under the terms of the applicable licence, I wasn't 100% satisfied and the BASC response didn't directly suggest that the licence could be relied on to protect flora (grass) so I made my choice based on that.

[22cf]

I have shot literally 100's. maybe 1000's of corvids with air rifles, shotguns, 22rf, 17hmr, 22 and 6mmcf, use whatever you like and is safe and humane.

 

Happy Hunting.