22 subs - solids and HP, a bit of relearning!

[brown dog]

I do all my 22lr plinking with SK Standard Plus solids; chosen for their accuracy through my BAR22.

 

Cynical as I am, I've just assumed that there's little real-world vermin 'knockdown' difference between these solids and subsonic 22 HP

 

- until I recently had cause to shoot two large rooks, both of which, although squarely hit with the SKs, flew off.

 

 

Just idiot checked myself against some rook-chest-sized sweet potatoes (the well-known rook-simulant! ) at 66m.

 

Well, the HPs were certainly different - rather clear why the rooks flew off! HP exit top and solid exit bottom.

 

 

 

Just need to find a source of eley sub HPs now (not convinced about RWS accuracy).

[rhhudson]

My cz 455 loves the rws subs, very consistent. Each gun to there own!

[FGYT]

Dauntsey guns.01249 893120

 

Have eley sub HP got some couple of weeks back tho my 10/22 still prefers CCI subs HP

[brown dog]

Dauntsey guns.01249 893120

 

Have eley sub HP got some couple of weeks back tho my 10/22 still prefers CCI subs HP

[1066]

Ahh yes! The never ending pusuit of the perfect .22 round. Tenex accuracy but Eley HP performance and price. If only

[onehole]

Not convinced that HP,s open up very much at all let alone fragment,,,,,,maybe better at shorter ranges BD,,,,not done that one but have found lots of "hollow point" bullets buried in sandy/earthy backstops at 100 yards that look quite intact and similar to "solids",,,,,,,,like i said not done the shorter range terminal examination ,,,perhaps I should......Must say i agree with most,,,,, Eley HP,s would be my first choice ,,,,others can give a tight bunch in a group but more than often some flyers too,,,,Eley just seem to hang on in there and group......Mostly,,, and yes I know they are expensive but I use Eley Match for all ranges up to 100 yard head shot bunnies,,stonking accurate.

Plinking,,,,,Eley "Sport" recent batches very very good ,,,,,,,,,even hate inaccurate plinking,,,,,though,,,,dohhhhh,,,,what have i become,,,,,,,O

[bradders]

Could it be the air pocket/cavity pushed in front of the bullet, caused by the hollow point, more than the bullet itself?

 

This may be of interest

 

[brown dog]

Not convinced that HP,s open up very much at all let alone fragment,,,,,,maybe better at shorter ranges BD,,,,not done that one but have found lots of "hollow point" bullets buried in sandy/earthy backstops at 100 yards that look quite intact and similar to "solids",,,,,,,,like i said not done the shorter range terminal examination ,,,perhaps I should......Must say i agree with most,,,,, Eley HP,s would be my first choice ,,,,others can give a tight bunch in a group but more than often some flyers too,,,,Eley just seem to hang on in there and group......Mostly,,, and yes I know they are expensive but I use Eley Match for all ranges up to 100 yard head shot bunnies,,stonking accurate.

Plinking,,,,,Eley "Sport" recent batches very very good ,,,,,,,,,even hate inaccurate plinking,,,,,though,,,,dohhhhh,,,,what have i become,,,,,,,O

 

Yup, we're on the same page - inaccurate plinking makes me shudder! - I've found the SK standard plus to be (for me) almost indistinguishable from Eley sport.

 

Without conscious thought, I had drifted to an assumption that HPs were a bit of a bluff too; the two rooks (body shots) made me have a re-think. The difference in effect on the sweet potatoes (!) was quite marked, not only visually, but a massively louder target impact noise.

 

As regards the 'non-eley' sub HP options, I share the experience that there are regularly shots that sound different and drop out of the group (10%-ish with the RWS?) . I think eley HP are the only brand I don't associate with the 'dud' rate flyers - but I haven't used the for quite a while!

[Davy]

The Winchester 39 grain was always the go to for my bolt actions however they will not feed reliably in my semi autos so instead I use the CCI HP Subs which give a good combination of accuracy, stopping and cycling. The problem is always finding ammunition that works in your rifle and is available either from your distributor or local shop and at a sensible price and most importantly stop things when it hits them.

[brown dog]

Could it be the air pocket/cavity pushed in front of the bullet, caused by the hollow point, more than the bullet itself?

 

This may be of interest

 

 

Interesting clip - thanks. From memory, subsonic terminal ballistics mean that wounding is limited to the wound track itself, I'm not sure what a subsonic HP does, beyond increase the wound track (if the HP opens!) and therefore cause more direct damage and, with that, decelerate more rapidly/ deliver more of a punch to the tgt.

I've noticed that the RWS HPs are 'pre-filled' with wax. Don't know if that's by accident or design; but I'd have thought that that would mean that expansion will start faster than, say, an unfilled HP.

[brown dog]

The Winchester 39 grain was always the go to for my bolt actions however they will not feed reliably in my semi autos so instead I use the CCI HP Subs which give a good combination of accuracy, stopping and cycling. The problem is always finding ammunition that works in your rifle and is available either from your distributor or local shop and at a sensible price and most importantly stop things when it hits them.

 

 

I've never got CCIs or Winchester (or Federal for that matter!) to group well, and the flyer dud rate has always struck me as high across all 3 brands - probably at least 1 flyer in a 5 shot group, and almost certainty in a 10 shot group.

 

I'm wondering if we're all a bit apples and pears on 22lr accuracy expectations?

I want something that'll do 1/2 inch at 50m on a still day, other than eley and sk plus, I find all the other brands to be at least double that ( with the added mystery of regular dud flyers!).

What are other users real-world accuracy expectations with other brands?

[Bangbangman]

I, too, was sceptical about the function of the hollow-point, until I recovered this HP:

 

 

[Davy]

The rimfire I usually grab is an old Anschutz 520 semi auto with a 12.5" barrel and PH MMI sound moderator with an equally old 10X Whitetail. It took a few boxes of different types of ammunition and three different sound mods before things came together and it shot reliably. With this rifle I am happy with 1/2" at 50 yards and I know it is around 1.25" at 100 yards so I prefer to keep shots within 85-90 yards for the sake of my quarry.

 

Probably my most accurate rimfire is a 1948 Savage model 5 that cost a tenner delivered however it is not screw-cut and is far too long to manoeuvre in a vehicle, plus it has a under barrel tube magazine so hopeless if I have to unload in a hurry. Accuracy wise it delivers consistent 3/4" groups at 100

[1066]

I'm also underwhellmed by .22lr accuracy. I often read of shooters claiming consistent rabbit headshots well in excess of 100 yards with the legendary 10/22's, I just don't seem to have the knack.

 

One of the problems I find is that velocity is pretty inconsistent with HP ammunition, especially compared with match quality rounds. This may not be too much of a problem in the more normal 50-80 yard range but does start to make a real difference at the longer ranges.

 

Here's a short video I made a couple of years ago testing six types of ammunition, three solids and three HP's at 65 yards in real world (windy) conditions. The Tenex, probably not un-expectantly, performed best.

 

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRw_xDtrFc

 

and here's a consecutive series of 6 x 5 shot groups with Eley HP's at 68 yards with my Finnfire. This also shows how it's easy to pick a good group, two of these look quite respectable.

 

.

[1in9]

It's a shame SK discontinued their subsonic line. Great results from all my .22s including a 10/22. They binned their Subsonic HP and HV HP line last year.

 

Have got some Eley Subs in for when the SK's run out. I've found CCI subs are flyer prone and Remington subs group very poorly.

 

Will try some RWS for comparison.

[Bushdog]

I have over the years recovered a lot of mushroomed subsonic HP bullets from rabbits, like the one in BBM's photo. Often find them under the skin on the opposite side of the rabbit from entry.

 

I am convinced they do work better than solids at the modest ranges they should be used for. I doubt they have the energy to expand much at 100 yds, which might explain the findings of onehole.

 

I agree with 1066 about the limitations of .22rf accuracy, and consider 100 too far away for me to shoot at quarry with it. While I can get rabbit-head sized groups easily enough from a good rest, I know I would struggle in field positions. I limit my use to about 80 yds or so, which means I have to get as close as I can, which I enjoy (I am fortunate in that I do not have to undertake commercial pest control).

 

Having had a few run-ons when I have used solids, I always try and use HPs on any quarry, for the sake of humanity. I am currently using the 42gr Winchester subs, which my CZ 455 seems to like.

[David Hancock]

Eley subs for me when hunting. Pretty consistent 80 metre MOA groups all day long. (Wish they would change the crappy box lid). Tenex when I want the 10nth extra accuracy. Measurably noisier.

Not worried about the cost frankly. Had to order them specially from Eley. CCI's pretty shocking for accuracy in my Anschutz and "cracky" noise.

[247sniper]

ran out of my normal 40 grain subs the other day so I thought Id give the new 42 grain Win subs a go in my CZ455 .22LR.

 

Having no details for them as they are relatively new I took them up to my range and gave them a go, checking the accuracy and working out ballistic performance.

This was straight out of the box with no bullet/weight/case sorting etc, that I sometimes do.

 

Measured atmospheric condition at my location = 16.9 degrees, Pressure = 28.77 inHg

Average MV = 1067 over a 15 shot string.

Max velocity = 1094ftps

lowest velocity = 1051ftps

 

I also measured the velocities at 120 yards as well and also measuring the exact drop at this distance to calculate the exact bullet Ballistic coefficient.

 

This resulted in G1 standard BC= 0.152

With 10.25 MOA elevation recorded at 120 yards = 13 inch drop.

 

Accuracy at 50 yards (zero ranged) was sub half inch with the odd flyer which could be eliminate by bullet and rim thickness sorting. At 120 yards accuracy was just over an inch again with the odd flyer.

 

Seem to be very good in my rifle and looking forward to getting out on the rabbits with them .

 

Steve

[1066]

 

Measured atmospheric condition at my location = 16.9 degrees, Pressure = 28.77 inHg

Average MV = 1067 over a 15 shot string.

Max velocity = 1094ftps

lowest velocity = 1051ftps

 

 

 

This resulted in G1 standard BC= 0.152

With 10.25 MOA elevation recorded at 120 yards = 13 inch drop.

 

Accuracy at 50 yards (zero ranged) was sub half inch with the odd flyer which could be eliminate by bullet and rim thickness sorting. At 120 yards accuracy was just over an inch again with the odd flyer.

 

 

 

Steve

Good information Steve. The velocity look like there could be a few crackers on those fresh autumn mornings.

 

It's those flyers that really P*** me off. You can weigh, check concentricity, rim thickness and they still show up.

[onehole]

Eley subs for me when hunting. Pretty consistent 80 metre MOA groups all day long. (Wish they would change the crappy box lid). Tenex when I want the 10nth extra accuracy. Measurably noisier.

Not worried about the cost frankly. Had to order them specially from Eley. CCI's pretty shocking for accuracy in my Anschutz and "cracky" noise.

Wish they could change the crappy box/lid,,,,,David,,,,you may have some or can get some "Berger" yellow box empty bullet boxes that are appx 85mm square they neatly hold two "Eley" 50 round crappy boxes!!!,,,,,,,neat way of carrying 100 rounds,,,?,,,,,,give it a try,,,,,,,,O

[bradders]

BAR 22's launch their bullets so fast they don't have time to stop and expand in pesky Corvids

[Montey]

I'm using the new 42g Winchester sub they perform very well . How ever I use a Sako Fin Fire MK1 and it shoots every thing well!

[247sniper]

I'm using the new 42g Winchester sub they perform very well . How ever I use a Sako Fin Fire MK1 and it shoots every thing well!

 

 

Yeh so far they seem to shoot very well in my in my .22Lr. They are more accurate at 120 yards then both my mates .17HMR's lol

[Morse]

Eley Subsonics all the way for me!!! Only ever tried a few different varieties over the years but keep going back to them and now its the only thing that I buy. Works well in my 10/22 and my CZ. 10/22 needs a good clean out after a while with them but I'm guessing the same for most coated rounds. I find Eley subs very consistent and the knockdown power at sensible ranges is good.

[Grum87]

Eley are dire through my 452. RWS all the way.....