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Saying hello & .22 Hornet help.

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It would be good to have rather moe field data on the terminal performance of these H&N bullets-users seem satisfied with their accuracy,for a Hornet,and they are certainly 'economical'.

There does seem to be some variation in penetration and knock down (well,there often is,but....).

Expanding should be mandatory for any sentient target (though some 22rf are acceptable for small rabbit at close range,for thosewho can brain shoot reliably).

"Non exit" does not mean "expanding"-it may well be a potentialnon expanding (enough) through and through that just did not have enough energy left to actually get through.

The only way to tell is by examining the fatal bullets for deformation of the right sort-"mushrooming"as it was once called-or just possibly splitting into several somewhat smaller pieces-though this latter is unlikely in these bullets.

Alternately a "hit and down" % above 90% woud be a good guide too.Most bullets "hit hard", but that is simply not enough-they just have to be terminal,effective near immediate .Of course,if you can examine the bullet wound etc,then they have probably been pretty effective,even if not quite 'drop on the spot' which is what should happen !

Is that how they perform,and for different species?



I would like to start by stating that everyone is entitled to their option and freedoms to express and perhaps even share their opinion with others.


I am mindful that we are somewhat straying "off topic" here as we began with discussing the H&N bullets, but having read your comments regarding the shooting of sentient targets (as you put it) with some interest, I would also like to share my opinion and experience.


I do not set out to offend anyone with my comments and should that be the case, I apologise right now.


I completely agree with your sentiment and opinion in respect of shooting live quarry with the anticipation and intention of a swift and human kill.


However, in my experience, projectiles that are not designed to intentionally expand on impact can be as "humane" a projectile as those specifically designed to expand.


There is obviously the legal requirement in the UK that the shooting of deer must be undertaken with the use of expanding projectiles only (along with other requirements - minimum muzzle energy, bullet weight, calibre etc etc).


I shoot flesh and bone for a living (on a daily basis) the projectiles that I shoot rabbits with are generally, slow moving (just over 1000 fps) subsonic .22 rimfire rounds. Rabbits are typically shot out to 75 yards with chest shots being the norm...they don't run off!


Foxes, I generally shoot with home loaded Hornady A-max and although intended as a target / non expanding projectile, I can assure you that they very much do expand. A fox that I shot on Sunday of this week with one such round, demonstrated this fact quite convincingly with a 4" exist wound it its chest - Oddly enough, Mr fox really did know much about it...I personally deem that as a humane shot without the use of a dedicated expanding round or cranial shot.


I have shot and still shoot foxes within busy cities using a moderated .22 rimfire weapon, fed with subsonic ammunition. All head-shots and all, without exception have dropped on the spot.


I feel it is easy to get hung up on the expanding / non expanding bullet issue.


The Hague convention of 1899 and the international law that stipulates the non use of expanding projectiles in war against fellow humans was intended to prevent devastating and inhumane wounds in the theatre of war...fine to shoot deer and other mammals with expanding bullets, but not humans.


Despite the convention of 1899, I cant help but wonder how many poor souls have fallen to "none expanding" projectiles without knowing a thing about it?


As a veteran myself, I have unfortunately experienced high velocity "non expanding" projectiles striking "sentient targets" the effects of a non-expanding bullet yaw through tissue and bone is truly devastating.


I do not wish to sound flippant nor patronising. As shooters, we all know that bullet placement is key.


If the rifleman in question has the skill and confidence to make the shot, I can assure you that a projectile not specifically designed to expand on impact will cause catastrophic and terminal tissue damage / wound resulting in an instant or near instant death.


Just my two penneth folks!

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On 8/8/2016 at 7:54 PM, CliveWard said:

Hi Lee,


That's annoying. I had to wait a while for a still day. :mad:


Anyway I had a bit more of a play this afternoon.


Conditions were a bit better for using the thermal so I could get a reasonable sight picture.


The thrown charges pretty much eliminated the vertical stringing but I did notice that the un-crimped loads would have the odd flyer horizontally ruining the groups and the un-crimped groups were a bit looser.


I shot 2 groups of each and the results were consistent for what was a very small sample test.


So the winner is the crimped loads. First group was 15mm and second was 10mm and inside the first so 6 shots holding 15mm. Happy days!


The final measured result is the H&N load shoots 10mm high at 100 yards and the V-Max load shoots 20mm high. Windage difference of 4mm is inconsequential for my sporting purposes.


The final recipe that works in my rifle but may leave someone else with a blackened face and a few less fingers is:


Neck sized winchester brass, trimmed to spec.

CCI small pistol primer.

11.5 grains of H110 thrown.

45 Grain H&N RN HS .224 loaded to COL of 1.751" which is just touching the lands in my rifle.

Medium to heavy crimp with the Lee factory crimp die.


I'll update when I have had chance to Chrono the load to complete the information.










Hi All,

Bit of a resurrection but had to do some zeroing with a new scope this afternoon. so ran them over the Chrono.

About 23 degrees this afternoon and out of a 13 1/2" ish barrel these are averaging 2850 fps.






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