Saying hello & .22 Hornet help.

[Leezie]

Hi fellas (and ladies) Just thought I’d say hello to everyone and introduce myself. My name is Lee, 49-years of age and I live on the South coast of England and have been shooting for just over thirty years.

 

I’m a qualified deer stalker and professional pest controller, running my little business for the past twenty or so years. I’ve been shooting both paper and live quarry since I was a kid, but still have much to learn!

 

I’ve been “rolling my own” as it were since the age of 17, when I purchased my first handgun. I used to shoot practical pistol back in the day and that’s when I started the home-loading. I currently own a few .22LR's, a .22 Hornet, a .308 Win, a couple of .45-70 Gov’s and two, 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. I reload for all but the LR’s obviously. I also have a few other Section ones (pistols) and a number of Section 2”s. I do quite a bit of Urban fox control within the city and some rabbit work out in the sticks when comes along. Living in a city, I also do a lot of feral pigeon slotting!

Right, here we go…Here’s my first post asking for help!

I’ve got back into shooting my little .22 Hornet, after rather stupidly letting it gather dust at the back of one of my safes for a couple of years. So, I’ve got a few V-Max heads and some Speer SP’s and some good ol TNT’s in the reloading room, but I'm looking for help in obtaining some 40-grain heads for punching paper, but something that I can still drill a fox with (head-shots only).

’ve had a load (500) 40-grain lead-heads with gas checks made for me, but I still can't push them as quickly as I’d like and the accuracy isn't up to what I know the rifle is capable of. I’m not trying to make the hornet into something that it’s not and tend to only use it out to 120-yards, but as I said, am looking for a bullet that I can get posted to me with ease and reliably (so technically non-expanding).

I’ve driven to Sportsmans gun centre and various other gun shops (my local one is awful) in order to purchase expanding projectiles, but just can seem to find a “regular” and reliable supplier…Hence the assistance request from you good people.

My rifle is a CZ and prefers bullets in the 40’s…It starts to lose track with 50”s and it likes flat-based bullets more than BT’s. So, my long-winded question is; Does anyone know where I can reliably purchase jacketed 40-grain flat-base bullets (not loaded ammo) in .224. Thanks everyone. Look forward to reading and learning from everyone. Cheers, Lee. :-)

[CliveWard]

Hi Lee,

 

I've got some of these on order: https://www.hn-sport.de/en/reloading/rn-224-45-gr-hs

 

From here: http://www.stopper.de/product_info.php/products_id/7088/product/h/n-bullets,-cal-22--.224,-45gr-hs-rn.html

 

No idea if they are any good yet as I'm still waiting for them to arrive.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Leezie]

Cheers Clive. They're certainly cheap enough! :-o Think I'll take a look at those as the seem to be just the job! Did you have any problem placing an order for them? What the ETA on them?

 

Thanks, Lee.

[Leezie]

Hi Lee,

 

I've got some of these on order: https://www.hn-sport.de/en/reloading/rn-224-45-gr-hs

 

From here: http://www.stopper.de/product_info.php/products_id/7088/product/h/n-bullets,-cal-22--.224,-45gr-hs-rn.html

 

No idea if they are any good yet as I'm still waiting for them to arrive.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

 

Just placed an order Clive for those little 45-grainers and some 140-grain .264's for my 6.5 Creedmoor...got to be worth a try! Thanks again, Lee.

[Leezie]

Hi Lee,

 

I've got some of these on order: https://www.hn-sport.de/en/reloading/rn-224-45-gr-hs

 

From here: http://www.stopper.de/product_info.php/products_id/7088/product/h/n-bullets,-cal-22--.224,-45gr-hs-rn.html

 

No idea if they are any good yet as I'm still waiting for them to arrive.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

 

 

Just placed an order Clive for those little 45-grainers and some 140-grain .264's for my 6.5 Creedmoor...got to be worth a try! Thanks again, Lee.

[CliveWard]

Hi Lee,

 

My bullets finally arrived this week and yesterday I had the chance to load some up.

 

 

The bullets look pretty good. A few little dents and wrinkles here and there on some of them and weight variance of about 1.5-2 grains on the 30 or so I put on the scales.

 

First thing I did was have at one with a file to see how thick the plating is. According to my rough measurements it's .5-.6mm which should be fairly robust and the central lead core is very soft.

 

I did a bit of tinkering on Quickload with H110 and 11.5 grains at my COL of 1.751" to be just on the lands seems to be as much as safely possible.

 

I've loaded up a few at 10.5, 11 and 11.5 grains to test.

 

No problem loading them up (after I had remembered how to use the progressive press as a single stage). The only thing I did find, because I don't chamfer / debur the hornet cases that much was that I got a small shaving of the plastic coating after seating, but none of the copper plating was affected.

 

I'll try to give them a go in the week if I get time and a still day.

 

Fingers crossed for success. I'm hoping for something around .22 magnum accuracy and terminal characteristics, with more power and about the same price loaded as eley subsonics.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Leezie]

Cheers Clive. My bullets turned up last week too. Not had a go with them as yet, but will be working up to 12.5 of LilGun I think?

 

I've loaded up a few mixed, lighter loads and despite having used LEE gear for years, I now use a Wilson press and dies for all my hunting guns (Sako TRG-22 in 6.5 Creedmoor, Sako 85 ss in.308 Win and the little. 22 Hornet - CZ).

 

So far, I've got on really well with the set-up, but I have to admit, i do chamfer the Hornet necks. I also make my own Creedmoor cases out of .243 Lappy brass and it also works well in the Wilson.

 

Be interested to know how your loads go?

 

I have to say, most of my fox work is only out to around 120-yards and I tend to head-shoot them, so those Hornet heads should do the job nicely, especially if like you say, the jackets are thin and the core soft! ;-)

 

Are your bullets weirdly light in colour?...mine are! :-D

 

Cheers,

 

Lee.

[les]

Hi Lee .... welcome to UKV!

[CliveWard]

Hi Lee,

 

Yes they are supposed to be a high speed construction, rather than the slower thinner plated or gas checked cast lead bullets. I've got a rather short barrel so even at the top end of the loads QL estimates around 2400 fps which correlates to H&Ns load data speed (but assuming a 24" barrel).

 

My setup had been a Lee single stage (until I finally broke it after 20 years) for initial load development or batches of 100 and a Hornady LNL AP with case feeder and all the gubbins for cranking out large batches.

 

Now I use the Hornady LNL for everything. Just take the case retaining spring off and put a block between the frame and shell plate to stop it indexing for single stage use.

 

I shall let you know how I get on...forecast is rain all week though.

 

My bullets are a bit darker if anything. I think it's down to the plastic coating. Perhaps my bullets had hung around a bit and oxidised before they got dipped / washed in the plastic.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[CliveWard]

Hi Lee,

 

I've had a bit of time this afternoon to test the loads.

 

As a bit of a caveat, I have a thermal scope on my rifle so it's not exactly a setup for measuring absolute accuracy. Unfortunately after the first couple of groups the sun came out and was directly in front of me which made getting a very precise sight picture difficult.

 

Anyway I shot a reference group of 3 shots with my usual 35 Grain V-Max load of .52" and then proceeded to test the H&N, with a bit of trepidation as this construction of bullet is a complete unknown to me and my load data was 'off-piste'. I shot a 3 shot group with the 10.5 grain load and I was very pleased at that at .7" but 2" lower than the 35 grain load which is too much of a trajectory difference in my situation.

 

The 11s shot about .8" higher and the 11.5s about another .8" higher again. The problem I ran into was vertical stringing (more than likely caused by using my digital scales to weigh the charges for the test rounds, rather than thrown charges).

 

Now that I know 11.5 grains gives me the trajectory I need. I'll load a bigger batch of those up with thrown charges and see how they go, but from the results so far I should have a dirt cheap rabbit round in the H&Ns zeroed pretty much dead on or a touch low at 100 yards and a faster longer range fox round in the V-Max zeroed around .5" high at 100 yards.

 

Quick bit of man maths has the H&N load coming in at around 13p (only 1p dearer than a .22 RF Eley subsonic.)

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Guesty]

This is a very interesting thread!

I wonder if the bullets will hold up to 223 Rem velocities? Perhaps they might be too soft?

The 308 125gn HP might be a particularly humane short range vermin option.

I too like good VFM loads where possible and am developing a load for my 17 Hornet with PRVI 22 brass, Kranks 17gn Vmax, Murom primers and Vit N110. Highly frangible at over 3800fps and sub MOA for under 17p per round. That's comfortably under the cheapest HMR ammo and with a load more oomph and consistent accuracy.

[BlueBoy69]

This is a very interesting thread!

I wonder if the bullets will hold up to 223 Rem velocities? Perhaps they might be too soft?

The 308 125gn HP might be a particularly humane short range vermin option.

I too like good VFM loads where possible and am developing a load for my 17 Hornet with PRVI 22 brass, Kranks 17gn Vmax, Murom primers and Vit N110. Highly frangible at over 3800fps and sub MOA for under 17p per round. That's comfortably under the cheapest HMR ammo and with a load more oomph and consistent accuracy.

I've been using H&N bullets for years in .22, 6.5 mm, .308, .303, .313/4, .357 and .44. All have been top quality. All ordered from Stopper in Germany as no one really stocks them in bulk in the UK. Plus those that do seem to charge the earth for them (what's new here).

 

As to the .223, I use the 55 gr .224 bullets in my 24" 1:14" .22 PPC USA Sako A1 rifle. These stabilise perfectly with 6.5 gr of Trail Boss, producing one hole groups at 20 m.Velocity according to QuickLOAD is about 1,700 fps. The bullets are rated to at least 800 m/s. Load data given for the 223 Remington is 14-14.5 gr of N110 this giving about 790-795 m/s. The min and max loads aren't stated, just the preferred.

[CliveWard]

Hi All,

 

I did some unscientific ballistic testing Friday night. They certainly clatter rabbits without any problem.

 

I've just loaded a few more up at 11.5 grains of H110 and for 10 of those I've run them through the Lee factory crimp die to see if that improves on the vertical stringing I was experiencing.

 

I'll do some side by side groups in the week to check.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Leezie]

I tried to have a go with mine this morning Clive. The CZ seemed to like the ones with 12.5 grains of Lil Gun, but to be honest, I wasn't getting the groupings that I wanted. 18 - 22 mph crosswind from 9 O'clock, so i called it a day with the little Hornet. I had loaded up a batch of Creedmoor experimental rounds too and those 140-grainers bucked the wind just fine!

 

As soon as a get a calmer day, I'll be back out at the range with the Hornet!

 

Lee.

[CliveWard]

Hi Lee,

 

That's annoying. I had to wait a while for a still day.

 

Anyway I had a bit more of a play this afternoon.

 

Conditions were a bit better for using the thermal so I could get a reasonable sight picture.

 

The thrown charges pretty much eliminated the vertical stringing but I did notice that the un-crimped loads would have the odd flyer horizontally ruining the groups and the un-crimped groups were a bit looser.

 

I shot 2 groups of each and the results were consistent for what was a very small sample test.

 

So the winner is the crimped loads. First group was 15mm and second was 10mm and inside the first so 6 shots holding 15mm. Happy days!

 

The final measured result is the H&N load shoots 10mm high at 100 yards and the V-Max load shoots 20mm high. Windage difference of 4mm is inconsequential for my sporting purposes.

 

The final recipe that works in my rifle but may leave someone else with a blackened face and a few less fingers is:

 

Neck sized winchester brass, trimmed to spec.

CCI small pistol primer.

11.5 grains of H110 thrown.

45 Grain H&N RN HS .224 loaded to COL of 1.751" which is just touching the lands in my rifle.

Medium to heavy crimp with the Lee factory crimp die.

 

I'll update when I have had chance to Chrono the load to complete the information.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[simonl]

 

Anyway I shot a reference group of 3 shots with my usual 35 Grain V-Max load of .52" and then proceeded to test the H&N, with a bit of trepidation as this construction of bullet is a complete unknown to me and my load data was 'off-piste'. I shot a 3 shot group with the 10.5 grain load and I was very pleased at that at .7" but 2" lower than the 35 grain load which is too much of a trajectory difference in my situation.

 

 

Just because it's 2 inches lower it doesn't have to mean that's due to a different trajectory - it could just be a change in POI

[Elliott]

Hi Lee,

 

That's annoying. I had to wait a while for a still day.

 

Anyway I had a bit more of a play this afternoon.

 

Conditions were a bit better for using the thermal so I could get a reasonable sight picture.

 

The thrown charges pretty much eliminated the vertical stringing but I did notice that the un-crimped loads would have the odd flyer horizontally ruining the groups and the un-crimped groups were a bit looser.

 

I shot 2 groups of each and the results were consistent for what was a very small sample test.

 

So the winner is the crimped loads. First group was 15mm and second was 10mm and inside the first so 6 shots holding 15mm. Happy days!

 

The final measured result is the H&N load shoots 10mm high at 100 yards and the V-Max load shoots 20mm high. Windage difference of 4mm is inconsequential for my sporting purposes.

 

The final recipe that works in my rifle but may leave someone else with a blackened face and a few less fingers is:

 

Neck sized winchester brass, trimmed to spec.

CCI small pistol primer.

11.5 grains of H110 thrown.

45 Grain H&N RN HS .224 loaded to COL of 1.751" which is just touching the lands in my rifle.

Medium to heavy crimp with the Lee factory crimp die.

 

I'll update when I have had chance to Chrono the load to complete the information.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

Presumably you're single loading these rounds, Clive? I'm also hoping to develop a load with some heavier bullets. Currently using 35gr V-Max with 12.5gr Lil Gun and a COAL of 1.730 simply due to the mag size.

 

I've got some 40gr & 45gr Sierra Hornet softpoints to play with. The 40gr bullets are showing potential with 13gr of Lil Gun

[CliveWard]

Hi Elliott,

 

The H&N bullets aren't very pointy so load to the lands and still fit in the magazine fine in my HW66.

 

The 35 grain v max are excellent. I dropped 3 foxes Wednesday night with those from 70-150 yards.

 

Unfortunately there weren't any Rabbits about to test the finalised H&N load on.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Leezie]

Hi Elliott,

 

The H&N bullets aren't very pointy so load to the lands and still fit in the magazine fine in my HW66.

 

The 35 grain v max are excellent. I dropped 3 foxes Wednesday night with those from 70-150 yards.

 

Unfortunately there weren't any Rabbits about to test the finalised H&N load on.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Really looking forward to putting my reloads with those H&N's through their paces Clive. Bit breezy here again this weekend, so probably still won't get to test their accuracy. I did wang a few through the CZ just to see how they felt...fed beautifully!

 

 

Clive

[ChrisF]

My std load for my Cz 527 , is 13.0gr Lilgun , CCI pistol primers , 40gr vmax , light crimp with Lee factory crimp die .

Its 3000fps out of my gun

[Elliott]

My std load for my Cz 527 , is 13.0gr Lilgun , CCI pistol primers , 40gr vmax , light crimp with Lee factory crimp die .

Its 3000fps out of my gun

What's the OAL of this load, Chris? Do they fit in the mag or are you single loading? I'd be interested in knowing how well these group because I've got some at home to try in my 223. May well work up a load for the Hornet

[CliveWard]

Hi All,

 

Just as a quick update.

 

Side chest shot an adult dog fox at 90 yards with the 45 grain H&N last night. Very load thump of the bullet setting up and dropped it like a sack of spuds.

 

On examination there was no evident entrance or exit wound, so it either drilled straight through, or deformed enough to expend all it's energy. By the sound of the setup I'm inclined to assume the latter.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

Clive

[Leezie]

Hello Clive,

 

That sounds pretty effective to me!

 

Weird about the lack of exit though. I would have though the bullet would just pass straight through the body without deforming at all? ...clearly did the job though! Think I'll go for a head-shot on my first with those bullets until I'm confident that a heart-lung shot will do the same as yours. When i do, I think I'll do an open heart surgery job to see what it does!

 

Cheers,

 

Lee.

[Spready]

when your ordered these bullets from there website, what option of payment did you choose? i was given the option of 'cash on delivery or invoice' ??

[BlueBoy69]

I

 

when your ordered these bullets from there website, what option of payment did you choose? i was given the option of 'cash on delivery or invoice' ??

I've used a bank transfer and credit card details via phone and two separate emails. They are normally very helpful.