Cz 455 help please

[Towsey]

Cheers for that

 

Towsey

[David Hancock]

Towsey, Great news getting a new rifle - despite the paperwork getting it changed on your ticket. Enjoy

[Bushdog]

Good news - hopefully you'll soon have it sorted.

[Towsey]

Yeah I can't wait, even tho it's only the .22, I just hope this rifle will be like I expected the last one to be.

 

Thanks for all the replies and advice tho guys

 

Towsey

[Towsey]

Well I've got my new rifle at last

 

Its only fired about 60 shots so far but all seems ok. Bolt and trigger feel good for a cz and the barrel runs straight down the middle of the stock, all nicely floating not like the last one that touched on one side.

 

But...something I've not seen before happened last nite. On firing a shot there was a Big Bang and some smoke from the breech area and when I opened the bolt it looked like the rim and base had blown off the case of the round. The bullet was gone and the remaining part of case fell straight out but it made me ponder for a while. Anyway, I had a good look round and the rifle still fires fine.

 

Has anyone had a similar experience at all ???

 

Towsey

[Bushdog]

Was there any chance that the shot before that happened was a powder-puff? Or that you got the barrel plugged in any way?

 

Sounds like the sort of thing some .17 HMR shooters have experienced, (but I never have) and never had a .22 rf case do that in 50 years of shooting .22.

[Towsey]

Don't have a clue how it happened to be honest. It was on bipod shooting groups of 5 and then CRACK! When I looked in the breech it just looked like a case had been put in the wrong way round for a joke sort of thing, basically it was just a brass tube, very odd. It needs barrel out I think now for a proper clean as I can see tiny bits of brass around the outside and where the extractor claws fit into. It still shoots better than the old one tho, but having said that, it's grouping about 1" @ 50yds which isn't as good as I hoped but it's getting better and I haven't tried any other ammo yet or done any other tweeks so I'm still happy with it

 

Towsey

[Bushdog]

try lots of different ammo in it - you'll find what it prefers. Out of curiosity, what ammo are you using currently?

[Towsey]

Well it's on Winchesters at the moment cos I just got 500 before the other rifle went back so I'm using these to run it in a bit and see how it goes but I've got some eleys, fioccis, cci, and rws to try through it.

 

I was out today and it was not a perfect day for shooting but I was only getting 3-4" groups at 100yds. Not happy with this I started going through the motions again and when I took the mod off, the group sizes went down to about 2", so it was off to the shop to get the mod changed so that made it better. The trigger is too heavy for 100yds aswell so il get another spring in there and il probably look at the bottom of the bolt as regards to it shaving bullets. The barrel is floating well tho which is good and I've tried the action bolt torque which didn't change much until they got too tight. I've backed the barrel retaining screws off cos they were very tight but I don't have a fat wrench and neither did the shop so I'm not really sure wot they are at but they feel similar to each other.

 

By the way, the Winchesters sound totally different in this rifle compared to the old rifle which seems odd, quite noisey but they were the quietist by a long way in the other one?

 

Has anybody any other good ideas for getting group sizes down, apart from keep using it

 

Towsey

[22lrman]

Just for info Ive got a 455 varmint and have no issues. It will hold half inch or less at 50m with cci standard, most of the time, when benchrested. All ive done is fit a rimfire majic trigger spring kit . Its a must in my opinion. Factory trigger was too heavy and unpredictable for me. £15.

Also recommend a few things that help ...

running a bore snake every 100 rounds or so, as flyers start to become more frequent on mine.

Also go forward slowly with bolt when chambering. Rounds sometimes jump and catch on top of chamber entry and shave a little lead off the bullet throwing off accuracy.

lube bolt cams, firing pin a little, seems to help. Bolt action feels smoother.

Probably me, but seems to be sensitive to trigger pull , likes to have the trigger pulled cleanly and held (not jerked) rather than creeped to release point if that makes sense.

Hope it helps, good luck. They are nice little rifles.

[Towsey]

Cheers for that.

 

I've been on a bipod and beanbag and the last rifle did have a lighter Spring which was better, I did the bolt work on the last rifle but I'm holding off with this one for now just to make sure I'm going to keep it first. I've only fired Winnie's thru it so far but fliers are quite regular but if I bore snake it then the whole grouping goes to pot, the last one was the same. I do as you say with the bolt and trigger because I totally agree with wot you say. I've used other peoples cz's for years which is why I got one but so far I have to say I'm disappointed, but I do have more faith in this rifle so I will persevere for now. It seems wrong tho that I've bought a rifle that groups at 4" and I have to work at it to get it down to wot others say their rifles do out of the box

 

What did other people's do when new?

 

Cheers

 

Towsey

[22lrman]

Just a thought BTW. If the head has seperated from case you may want to check the headspace. Measure /inspect the case length before and after firing. For example a concentric bulge just above the rim all the way round indicates the case is moving back to the bolt face during firing. Then expanding in that area under pressure. It will also throw off accuracy.

Stock screws should not be overtightened above factory as this can cause issues. Mine are firm by hand , but not swinging off the hex key tight.

Also check usual, scope, mounts etc are not moving. A few years ago I had an old Nikko xcope that essentially started to go all over the place, then rattled around like a bucket of bolts inside. The reticle piece was loose as hell. And this was on an air rifle

If you were closer nearer Worcestershire I would say drop by my club and have a go with mine. They are great little guns.

[Bushdog]

I think you may be expecting a bit much out of a .22rf at 100.

 

Mine will easily form 4" groups at 100 with ammo it doesn't like too much. Realistically if it will consistently produce sub 2" groups at 100 with ammunition it prefers, in my book there's nothing wrong with it at all. Don't be too influenced by the web warriors who are apparently able to get 1/2" groups at 1/2 mile with their .22rf.

 

I have a 3" gong set up at 100m on my test range - if my .22 will hit that every shot in a 10-shot magazine, I call it good to go. I think 100 is too far for me to take shots on live quarry with a .22rf in any case.

 

I'd be tempted to do your accuracy testing at 50 with a .22 - the elements will have a lot less effect. If it will give consistent 1/2" groups at 50, you have a .22 factory gun which is as good as you are likely to get without spending serious cash on it.

 

Definitely be worth getting a trigger kit in it, though - makes a lot of difference.

[Towsey]

Thanks for replies

 

22lrman...that's great info about testing headspace thanks, il defiantly be giving that a go. The gun shop said that the little port on the right side of the receiver is there for if you get a dodgy round like I did with mine but I don't know how true this is.

 

 

I've tried the stock bolts at different torques and as long as they are not too loose or tight then it's no different. I've also put a lighter spring in the trigger now. I took the barrel out while at the shop changing my mod and had a good clean round in there. Whilst out last time, getting crap groups as usual, I thought I needed to try something because it's just getting daft now. Anyway, I sanded and smoothed the bottom of the bolt because it was shaving bullets and BINGO, the very next group of 10 shots was down to just over an inch @ 100yds if you forget the 2 fliers that were still about another 2" out. Now immensely pleased because I thought I'd solved the problem, I thought right it's time to try some different rounds now. But first I tried a bit of short term bedding of the barrel with a bit of cardboard just because I saw somewhere that somebody found it helped with some of their rifles to have the barrel bedded not floating but it was not the case with mine so I immediately removed it again. So I now tried some other rounds and to my near dis belief it was nearly as bad as it was before I did the bolt work, even with the Winnie's back thru it again.

 

What I'm wondering and sort of hoping is that has me nipping the barrel down onto the cardboard somehow dislodged the barrel because I did not use a fat wrench to tighten the retaining screws when I put it back in...is something like this a possibility???

 

Bushdog...I shoot at 100yds so that I see any gain or loss easier, rather than it been hidden by a shorter range if you get me, and yes I agree, if it shot 1/2 inch at 50yds then I'd be happy at that. I wish it would shoot less than a 2" group at 100, it's done it once in nearly 500 shots and its other problems seem that bad that the new trigger Spring didn't make a lot of difference in comparison ☹️

 

Thanks for your time

 

towsey

[Bushdog]

Towsey - I get what you say, but my point was that I do not think a .22rf which groups 1/2" at 50 will necessarily scale up to 1" at 100.

 

Unless you are shooting in a perfectly lit tunnel range, I think that the cartridge is likely to be affected by environmental conditions at 100 to such an extent that this is what causes final group size at that distance rather than mechanical accuracy.

[Towsey]

Yeah fair point. I used to set targets at 50, 75 and 100 but I was using that much ammo trying to get it sorted that I just went to 100. What you say makes sense tho and I'm willing to try anything. I haven't had chance to re install the barrel and try the rifle again yet and although I understand and agree with wot you say, and I will do it, I do genuinely believe there is something mechanical somewhere, especially after seeing the difference that sorting the bottom of the bolt made even though for some reason it only lasted 10 shots. There's too many coincidences and differences in things. I would really like to find an experienced rifle builder/ gunsmith in my area that would go over my rifle for me

 

Cheers

 

Towsey

[drum]

Owning a problem rifle can be frustrating but I personally think you are introducing a lot of variables yourself. Find a brand of ammunition you're barrel likes, shoot groups at 50 yards and see how you get on. Removing barrel bolts, stock bolts regularly won't do anything for consistency. Get someone else to shoot it as well. It's not always the gun. Frustration isn't conductive to accuracy. We've all been there.

Drum

[Towsey]

Cheers for that

 

I'm not trying to introduce variables but work through them to try and find the problem. It's not given me chance to find a round it likes because it basically throws them all over the place. I've just looked at some old targets and at 50yds the group of 10 are 2" if you count the 2 fliers and 1" if you discount them. I should of tried it at 50 the other day when I sanded the bolt and the group size dropped to just over 1" at 100 but I was too happy at the time to think about it . I only took the barrel out the first time to be able to have a good clean out of all the bits from that dodgy round, and I only want to do it this time because of me trying that cardboard under the barrel and that was when it all went to pot again so I'm wondering if I've dislodged it??? I don't intend on doing it any more times than I have to tho.

 

Thanks

 

Towsey

[FGYT]

I think 100 is too far for me to take shots on live quarry with a .22rf in any case.

 

Really my 177 cal 12 ft lbs airgun is good for 50yards and in perfect conditions 60yards on headshot rabbits .

 

My 10/22 still carries 60ft lbs at 150yards plenty for a body shot on a bunny which is a 2" killzone

 

So 100 is where a 22 lr Should shine with 1 to 1.5"group field use accuracy

[22lrman]

Try chambering but not firing, and ejecting, a magazine full of rounds and inspect them for any damage. If no shaving etc then thats not the issue.

As someone said above try getting someone else to have a go with a few mags at 50m. When I started shooting a few years ago I had a bad trigger technique that was my issue. Everyone else shot fine with it, much to my dismay. 2000 rounds sorted that!

Otherwise im afraid just work at it eliminating problems one at a time, it will come. The love of shooting eh .

[Towsey]

She's sorted!

 

A couple of weeks ago I went to another gun shop I sometimes use with my rifle and went through wot had been happening with them. Anyway, they ended up re-setting the barrel retaining bolts to a tried and tested torque that they use and at the same time they cleaned my barrel with some fluid and a proper procedure, this they did because I told them that when the rifle came it was oozing oil from all over the place and the first thing I did was take the stock off and have a good wipe round! So they wondered if some was finding its way into the barrel. They also sent me on my way with some target ammo to try to see if there was any difference to hp's (there wasn't much but it was worth a go). Then when I got home I stripped my mags and sure enough the one that came with this new rifle had oil in it, which was transferring to the rounds every time!

 

This is the first time that I've done more than one thing at a time to the rifle before trying it again and, typically, something has sorted it out. After following another thread about .22 accuracy, and seeing that they rarely group aswell as people say, and doing these things to mine I'm now pretty much happy with it and it's started to clock up some kills.

 

I was going to put a post up when it got done but I thought the thread had maybe run its time so I didn't bother, good to see people keep reading things tho. When I get chance il do some groups and put them on the other thread

 

Thanks

 

Towsey

[22lrman]

Just for info Ive got a 455 varmint and have no issues. It will hold half inch or less at 50m with cci standard, most of the time, when benchrested. All ive done is fit a rimfire majic trigger spring kit . Its a must in my opinion. Factory trigger was too heavy and unpredictable for me. £15.

Also recommend a few things that help ...

running a bore snake every 100 rounds or so, as flyers start to become more frequent on mine.

Also go forward slowly with bolt when chambering. Rounds sometimes jump and catch on top of chamber entry and shave a little lead off the bullet throwing off accuracy.

lube bolt cams, firing pin a little, seems to help. Bolt action feels smoother.

Probably me, but seems to be sensitive to trigger pull , likes to have the trigger pulled cleanly and held (not jerked) rather than creeped to release point if that makes sense.

Hope it helps, good luck. They are nice little rifles.

Just read that post , small bore is measured edge to edge. So make that about .75 inch at 50y. My mistake. :-0

Was a really interesting post by started Brown Dog on real 22 groups by the way, will make you feel much better!

[Bushdog]

Really my 177 cal 12 ft lbs airgun is good for 50yards and in perfect conditions 60yards on headshot rabbits .

 

My 10/22 still carries 60ft lbs at 150yards plenty for a body shot on a bunny which is a 2" killzone

 

So 100 is where a 22 lr Should shine with 1 to 1.5"group field use accuracy

 

I was talking about me. You are welcome to shoot at things as far away as your conscience will allow. You may not have seen the 100m groups I posted on the other post (http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/35243-22lr-accuracy-expectation-challenge-3-consecutive-5-shot-groups-post-photos/), but clearly they are NOT 1-1.5" field use accuracy. I have not seen any groups on that post from you.