6-6.5×47 Lapua

[Panda]

Hi folks. I'm looking to put a short action long range barrel on 1 of my Savage 12 actions for target shooting and was looking at the 6-6.5×47 on Quickload. The figures look quite promising using RS62 when compared to the 6.5×47 or even the 6.5-284 I'm running at the moment, however I'd like to hear more about this cartridge before deciding if it's the right way to go and guidance would be appreciated.

 

All the Best

[trucraft]

Probably depends on what you're planing to shoot at and how far.

I love this little round.

So efficient, easy to load for, super accurate and brass prep is a breeze.

What's not to like?

[Panda]

Sorry, should've said. It's for 1000yd bench rest. The ease of brass preparation is something that's drawing me towards the round as well and I suppose I'm looking for something giving a bit more than a 6br with a better barrel life than a 6.5-284.

[The Gun Pimp]

Yup - had a couple of these. One was used to win the UKBRA 1000 yard BR Championship last year.

 

I'm currently using a 'six' in F Open. The little six' will do the job out to 1000 yards but expect to get blown about on a breezy day.

 

I like 'sixes' but honestly, the 6.5x47 is probably a better all-rounder.

[weejohn]

I have used one for the last 5 years or so . Great round and the efficiency was one of the reasons I chose it as a calibre. I found mine liked imr4350 and only giving up 30fps to RL17. 3150 fps with a 105 gr Amax out a 26" barrel. Primer of choice was Remington 7 1/2 . I don't shoot target comps and use it for shooting live stuff / long range plinking so being able to mag feed easily was a must.

[The Gun Pimp]

Sorry, should've said. It's for 1000yd bench rest. The ease of brass preparation is something that's drawing me towards the round as well and I suppose I'm looking for something giving a bit more than a 6br with a better barrel life than a 6.5-284.

 

Great choice for 1000 yd benchrest. But, don't write-off the 6BR - the 6BRs beat the 6-6.5x47s yesterday at Diggle - and it was quite breezy.

[Panda]

Great choice for 1000 yd benchrest. But, don't write-off the 6BR - the 6BRs beat the 6-6.5x47s yesterday at Diggle - and it was quite breezy.

Cheers For the info Vince. It's actually a 6br barrel that's on the action at the moment which I bought for doing the 600yd winter seasons down at Diggle, but between health and Bob passing, with no-one else wanting to travel I've never got down to use it. You may have noticed from my response to Tony's write up on the last Gelston shoot that the 6.5-284 barrel is on borrowed time now and I'm torn between the 6.5×47 and the 6-6.5×47. We have guys trying to get 6.5×47s working at Gelston using a variety of bullet weights but at the moment Bruce's 6br seems to have the edge on them, as does Emily's in Heavy gun and my 6.5-284 in Factory which is why I'm torn between the 6 or 6.5.

 

All the Best

David

[Borisserge]

I wouldn't knock the 6.5x47 or the 6mmbr - From personal experience I would say mine would achieve higher scores with a better "driver".....

If I manage down on the 10th you are more than welcome to give a go...

[Panda]

I wouldn't knock the 6.5x47 or the 6mmbr - From personal experience I would say mine would achieve higher scores with a better "driver".....

If I manage down on the 10th you are more than welcome to give a go...

Cheers Borisserge. That would be useful. I know that theoretically the 123 - 130s are the "better" weight of bullet for the 6.5×47, but I also know that some shooters are getting the 139 - 142s working. However, after running the 6-6.5×47 through quickload using RS62 and 107gn bullets, it would appear to have the edge over the 6.5×47 (by quite a margin in a 10mph, 90° crosswind using both yours and Glyn's figures). It's the gusts that'll cause the problems with the 6 though.

[garyw]

David-i shot a 6x47 in f-=class and 1000yd -600yd br - the barrel started to loose its accuracy edge at about 850-900 rounds this was with 105 bergers and RL17.the cartridge is easy to load for and has the speed edge over the smaller sixes but i now shoot a 6br in 1000yd and 600yd br.the only "limit" is the choice of heavy bulletts-115gn max the 6.5x 47 as you know can use a heavier bullet which i assume will give a better bc.

as Vince has pointed out the sixes will shine.

[Panda]

David-i shot a 6x47 in f-=class and 1000yd -600yd br - the barrel started to loose its accuracy edge at about 850-900 rounds this was with 105 bergers and RL17.the cartridge is easy to load for and has the speed edge over the smaller sixes but i now shoot a 6br in 1000yd and 600yd br.the only "limit" is the choice of heavy bulletts-115gn max the 6.5x 47 as you know can use a heavier bullet which i assume will give a better bc.

as Vince has pointed out the sixes will shine.

Hi Gary, how are you doing?

 

That information on accuracy is interesting. I had a friend with a barrel life predictor run the theoretical figures I got from Quickload and it came up with a life of about 1800 rounds, although I'd expect some accuracy drop off towards the end. The barrel life was one of the reasons I was considering the cartridge as it was meant to be about 50% better than the 6.5-284 if not quite as good as the parent case 6.5×47. Yet another thing to consider!!!

[Laurie]

When the 6.5X47L appeared 10 years ago, the American mid / long-range BR crowd got very excited seeing the possibilities that a necked-down version would offer. With the 6mm Dasher king of the hill, the 6-6X47L would offer a bit more capacity / MV and with Lapua brass consistency and the same small primer and flash-hole case-head as the 6BR / Dasher it had to be a winner - and bonus of a long case-neck too.

 

10 years on there are some 6-6.5X47 winners around, but it's still the Dasher that is the one to match never mind beat. Look at the Accurate Shooter, 6mmBR.com as was, forum. Some years back, the 6-6.5X47L was a popular topic subject, today only occasionally. But Shiraz Balolio and his Bullets.com outfit commissioning half a million Norma 6mm Dasher long-neck cases is HOT, HOT news the topic now having 322 posts and 24,310 views.

 

I think that says it all.

[Laurie]

Hi Gary, how are you doing?

 

That information on accuracy is interesting. I had a friend with a barrel life predictor run the theoretical figures I got from Quickload and it came up with a life of about 1800 rounds, although I'd expect some accuracy drop off towards the end. The barrel life was one of the reasons I was considering the cartridge as it was meant to be about 50% better than the 6.5-284 if not quite as good as the parent case 6.5×47. Yet another thing to consider!!!

 

 

If you try the one on Accurate Shooter:

 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=barrel+life+calculator&submit=Search

 

and download the Excel file. .......

 

Using 40gn RS62 (3,722 KJ / Kg specific energy) to give a QuickLOAD calculated 3,149 fps MV from a 30-inch barrel and 58,369 psi PMax, a modest pressure compared to those many such users actually run, estimated barrel life ranges from 251 (!!!) rounds at a firing rate of a shot every 5 seconds as used in Benchrest, to 1,918 if used in slowfire disciplines and a firing rate of 100 plus seconds between shots.

 

As is so often the case with such ready reckoners, this really tells you zilch useful.

[Leeman]

David,

 

I've been shooting the 6.5x47 for over 11 years now and when I spoke to people who were using the 6-6.5x47 and the speeds they could get with 105 class bullets it seemed inferior to the 6.5x47. I've used the 139 Scenar, 140 Berger VLD and 130 Norma and both 139 and 140 can easily reach 2900fps with H4350 and N550 with a 30' barrel so you can determine what you would have to run the 6's at to have any advantage in the wind, although of course it has to come with accuracy as well. I happen to run the Norma's at the same speed purely because they shot so well I didn't even bother to shoot the heavier charges I'd loaded when I first tried them in this barrel. My first barrel lasted 2200 rounds, the second a bit less and my current one is at 1800 or so and still shooting well, although once my current batch of Norma's are gone I will have a new one fitted. Prior to using the 6.5x47 I had 6.5x55 Ackley's, the last barrel barely reached 2900 fps with the same bullets without destroying primer pockets, soft Lapua brass I assume compared to the stronger small primer cases. You could also look at the 6 Dasher, formed cases are now made by Norma although whether the the UK will get any remains to be seen.

 

Richard.

[The Gun Pimp]

Leeman - The 6-6.5x47 shooting a 105gn bullet will do about 3250fps in a 30 inch barrel.

[Panda]

If you try the one on Accurate Shooter:

 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=barrel+life+calculator&submit=Search

 

and download the Excel file. .......

 

Using 40gn RS62 (3,722 KJ / Kg specific energy) to give a QuickLOAD calculated 3,149 fps MV from a 30-inch barrel and 58,369 psi PMax, a modest pressure compared to those many such users actually run, estimated barrel life ranges from 251 (!!!) rounds at a firing rate of a shot every 5 seconds as used in Benchrest, to 1,918 if used in slowfire disciplines and a firing rate of 100 plus seconds between shots.

 

As is so often the case with such ready reckoners, this really tells you zilch useful.

Hi Laurie,

 

Wow, 251 rounds!!! I guess between that sort of figure for barrel life and what Gary was saying I'll be looking for another cartridge

[Panda]

10 years on there are some 6-6.5X47 winners around, but it's still the Dasher that is the one to match never mind beat. Look at the Accurate Shooter, 6mmBR.com as was, forum. Some years back, the 6-6.5X47L was a popular topic subject, today only occasionally. But Shiraz Balolio and his Bullets.com outfit commissioning half a million Norma 6mm Dasher long-neck cases is HOT, HOT news the topic now having 322 posts and 24,310 views.

 

I think that says it all.

 

That explains a lot, Laurie. I wondered why I couldn't find much about it on the forum when I looked.

 

Thanks for the input. It's much appreciated.

 

David

[Borisserge]

Hi David, could a dasher reamer be used in your 6BR leaving a new plan B?

[gbal]

The numbers are fairly straightforward-individual rifle precision will vary and is important (I assume equal accuracy-ie the final distribution of shots on the target,which is the combination of technical precisionnof rifle/ammo and shooters skill and shooting solution-wind reading.

 

The 6.5x284 is now no longer competitive with the ballistically superior short 7 mags etc,but here's what you need to be as good(ie wind deflection 70" at 1000y):

 

6.5 142g BC .565 2950 fps

 

6mm 115 BC.585 3065 fps

 

Barrel life for 6mm is shorter; weights/recoil are equaliseable within rules.

 

Barrel life is very much reduced by fast rates of fire (seee posts-note it's fast rate of fire that advantage the smaller calibres esp 6s).

 

You can vary parameter(s) to compensate-eg longer barrel for velocity or the BC a little ,and so on -but the other cartridges users can do likewise.....

 

As a guide,you can trade 496 fps less vel for a .1 BC improvement (BC.565@2950 = BC .596@2796 ) ((.031 BCdiffx496fps=2796))

 

Permutations are considerable,though not quite endless (bullets etc are limited,and so is realisable velocity (new powders do appear) and recoil tolerance (30 cal 220gBC.627,2650 fps to match the above has a fair bit of recoil,so beyond allowable weight limits) and 224 .502 90g @3270 is ambitious,shall we say.

 

The lighter 6s (Dasher and 6BR) with excellent accuracy seem nice to shoot,especially in benign conditions-as results confirm

 

gbal

[The Gun Pimp]

"The 6.5x284 is now no longer competitive with the ballistically superior short 7 mags etc" says gbal.

 

Unfortunately George we are talking 1000 yard benchrest here. Have a look at what topped the list at last Sunday's Diggle comp.

 

Yup - that'd be Nick Parkin shooting his absolutely standard FACTORY SAVAGE in 6.5-284! His winning agg. was 8.3 inches for four, 5-shot groups!

 

The 6.5-284 fell out of favor with the 'effers but I think it still has potential - with new bullets, powders etc. now available which weren't around 10 years ago.

[gbal]

Vince,yes indeed,and I was meaning 1000y yard BR. One result initself,does not change much (shouldn't think everyone will buy Savages by preference) but I was really just using 6.5 ( the parameters are for calibre not cartridge,though the actual data are x284 ,as a known benchmark,but indicating that it was no longer king of the hill.)

By using it as the benchmark,and comparing the 6mm,the implication is clear that the 6.5 takes a bit of beating.

Recent iproved powders and bullets enhance it'sperformance;but then such also enhance the alternatives,and something of a case can be made for 'leap frog' as improvements -including brass-come on line.

I tthink we are not on different pages;I did not mean to diminish the 6.5 (perhaps especially the x284)-really more the contrary-the 6s need a benign day to be 'equal'. 7s less so.

 

Bottom line-there are various options,but we can at least specify what has to be achieved for comparability ballistically (accuracy and plain old personal preference are different criteria,and more subjective.......part of the fun of the hobby. ;-)

 

g

[MJR]

Wow, outstanding u turn there Gbal

From "The 6.5x284 is now no longer competitive with the ballistically superior short 7 mags etc,"

To

"I did not mean to diminish the 6.5 (perhaps especially the x284"

[gbal]

Ah,MJR, but if I write more than a few sentences,it attracts your condemnation,too.

 

The 6.5s are currently not competitive-or at least not the 'hot' choices,at the highest level- with the 7s for 1000y BR,and perhaps even more so ,F class. That's why many have switched to the 7s (not all mags-as in 'straight 284' or Shehane etc,but also the Win& Rem short mags.

 

But the 6.5x284 is still a fine cartridge,carrying only a slight competitive disadvantage-at the cutting edge-for many shooters,especially those who do not need the current fashionable leader (s) in chambering (which once was the 6.5x284).That's why the ballistics of a 6.5x284 are given as the benchmark as was,since most are familiar with it.There is no need of a u turn,since there is no contradiction ( two separate but related criteria for 'best'-what was/is -and differnt criteria for best-cutting edge/ not quite ),but thank you for your comment-looks like you read most of it this time....:-)

 

I hope the actual facts were of some interest. Adding in the 7 would have been easy, but strictly speaking,outside the OP.

 

These ballistic criteria stand,which is what matters,and show under which parameters the 6 can be the equal of the 6.5 ( generically,notice -not just in one specific cartridge).

 

Bryan is no doubt turning in his book,but u choose..........:-)

 

gbal

[garyw]

Leeman - The 6-6.5x47 shooting a 105gn bullet will do about 3250fps in a 30 inch barrel.

Vince is on the money -with RL17 and magnum primers i got 3240fps out of a 30" bartlien -maybe thats why the bbl is toast.

as a side note the same bbl is now doing sterling work in the field on my Nesika "j" had the chamber set back to go on and now get 3400fps with a 70gn sierra bk with a mildish load of imr4350. it still holds 0.75moa of fox to 250yds so all is not lost the bbl now has 1350 down it and still makes me smile.