Jump to content

help help help


Swarovski1

Recommended Posts

Here we go again.i got new replacement forster br die set.the last one scraped all the necks.ive neck turned all 200 to save cases.ran the necks through again.primed yesterday

I was just about to seat some 140gr amaxs in freshly prepared cases and the bullet falls into the case neck.what the he'll is going on.now I am really pi$$ed off.

Got some measurement

expander ball measures 0.283 across

Outside case neck measures 0.3075 now

This has to be a 7mm / 284 size expander ball

I've spent hours and hours redoing these 200 cases

Am gutted

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

If you've neck turned them, they now have a thinner neck wall, so if you put them through the same resizer die as when they weren't turned, the inside diameter of the neck will be greater, hence less neck tension.

 

I don't think that's Tim Hannam's or Forster's fault!

 

Get hold of a bushing neck sizing die and 2 or 3 different bushings so you can fine-tune the neck sizing and obtain the best neck tension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You may think it's an insignificant amount of brass being turned off, but it may be enough to make the difference. TBH most digital calipers are not accurate enough to measure a difference of + or - 1/2 thou', which is sometimes all it takes. A small difference in neck OD can make a bigger difference to the final ID once it's been through an expander and then a resizer.

 

Brass has 'spring back' so you can't easily relate the measurement of an expander ball or a neck bushing die with the ID you'll end up with after you've done all the prep.

For that reason, you also may need to leave the brass a while after resizing as the 'spring back' doesn't all happen immediately. Brass flows more than you might think!

 

You can take the same type of brass, dies, neck turner and bullets, give them to two different people and end up with different neck tension between the two. Once you've done all the prep. steps, there's enough variation in the tolerances to affect the end result. That's why it's important to check everything when you start using a new batch of brass, bullets or get a new die, neck turner etc.

 

Even Lapua Match brass can vary quite considerably between batches. They can't manufacture brass cases and bullets to such tight tolerances and there's no need for them to do so because they know experienced hand loaders will be checking and adjusting everything from one batch to another to get the end result they need for their particular rifle.

 

I'm not saying your problem is due to batch differences, just that you can't rely on a number printed on a box of bullets, brass or a die to determine neck tension. It's more of a trial and error process to sort out your particular combination of processes to arrive at the neck tension you need.

At the end of the day, you're not getting enough neck tension, so the easy fix is to get a neck bushing die and resize the necks. You could get another batch of brass from Hannams and get the same result or a different one, who knows? Once you've got yourself a bushing-based neck resizer, you'll have more control over neck tension anyway, so it's a win-win!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I only turned the scratch line off.nearly none of them shaved on any other part of the neck.case walls are the same.expander ball is 19 thow bigger than a .264 calibre bullet.surely it should be smaller that bullet so to achieve neck tension.

I'm with you on this. I just measured a handful of differnet 6.5 and 7mm die sets to see how the expander sizes compared to your measurements. If you've for a .283 expander ball then that is definitely a 7mm expander. All of mine, including the carbide units, measured pretty much that. The Six Point Fives were all around .262". Normally I would caution that cases being reworked should be done one at a time -all operations done on one case as a trial. In your case, you seem to have gotten the short end of luck. I don't think the cases are ruined, but it's a set back. At the very least, I'd want an proper expander expedited to me.~Andrew

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're loading 6.5mm cases? That wasn't clear in your first post. Yes, .283 sounds like a 7mm expander ball.

 

I've never bothered with expander balls unless the neck has been dented or damaged.

 

If they supplied the wrong ball, then they have some responsibility to put the matter right, but personally I would still just buy a neck resizer die and sort it out that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh its gottabe a 7mm expander ball, a 6.5 ball would be several thow less than a 6.5/ 0.264 bullet, please dont somebody reply with I should of checked the expander ball before I started, I checked the expander ball was in the right place that it tells you to in instructions,just incase it moved in transit/transporting,how many people do check the size of the expander ball, probably nobody is the answer, some say its better to have bad luck than no luck at all....

I thought i had bad luck to get the fl die that scratched up and shaved 200 cases, lightning striking twice, very unlikely, how did a 7mm expander end up in a 6.5x47 fl die.one things for sure neither were my fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're right, I doubt anyone would check the size of the expander, but it is sensible to check the first few off the 'production line' before carrying out the same prep on 200!

 

Anyway, I still stand by what I've said. I would never rely on a button to size a neck ID correctly because of springback apart from anything else.

 

I always carry out neck sizing with a bushing die as the last operation I do before priming. Even if I've primed them, I can still put them back through a neck sizing die again if I find there's not enough neck tension on that batch of cases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I put 2 cases back the the die with spindle taken out

results are

it did squash the neck down but leaving the end of the neck flared approx 20 thow of it, also the case grew back 9 thow to its original size

case measuring the flare was .2875 to .2885

behind the flare it was ,2775 to .2785

case wall thickness 12.5 to 13,5 thow

264 bullet plus 26 thow,2 case wall thicknesses is 290,

reamer is probaly 292,

290 less . 2885 is 1.5 thow neck tension

290 less .2785 is 11.5 thow neck tension

brass has been seriously over worked now

ive a flare at end of the neck,

not sure what to expect from exessive neck tension,

not sure what the standard expected neck tension would be with a 6.5x47 in a orster br die or should I say a 7mmx47 die

ny guess is fire forming would sort these cases and with the right expander ball sort them but by the time you fire formed them, the cost of 200 lots of powder bullets and primers would be the price of 200 new brass cases then you have to prep them all again.i feel I tried to sort the cases out after first die scraped them all by neck turning the damage, I went out my way to do it to have the wrong expander in the replacement die mess them all up.running them through without the spindle is I think pointless.more new brass is the way to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said it before on your last post, why on earth are you sizing all the 200 pieces of brass before you check the dimensions?

ive done 10s of thousands of cases without a problem MJR, when you got hundreds to do you get on with it, never heard of a die scrapping the brass off the necks and ive never heard of a die with an oversived expander innit, I do check and inspect as I go,2 problems with 2 consecutive die from a so say top die maker is unexceptable, maybe I shouldnt take these things for granted but I paid good money for it and also bought on recomendation.so far the 6.5x47 experience as been really bad, running in a new barrel with ruined brass is not going to be good either.atb Neil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

260rem would of been much less work at the rate you're going ;)

 

Only messing with you.....you're not having much luck though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's a thow?

A prudent reloaded paying attention to the process would probably check a new part of the reloading process before continuing on and taking that item for granted, simply on a basis of safety. Sure you may have a 7mm expander in a 6.5 die, so what? As stated above dragging a resized 6.5 case over a 7mm expander must have required more force or were you not paying attention to that either. Measuring the first few cases would have identified a problem straight away. Prescribing to the ONPA school of reloading will sooner or later lead to tears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They went through very easy dave, I lube 50 percent of the necks and put them through the die alternately, it didnt feel any different that fl sizing a case without caming over the shell holder, they were already necked but after the neck turning i had different opinions on whether i should just neck or fl size them,i checked the cases as far as inspecting the die was not damaging the case,if I have any doubts or queries on any reloading I pm the experts on here for advice regulary like laurie, ronin, spud,I am sure they would confirm this, I am not as perfect as you mjr though I do try to be, ive learnt the hard way with the 6.5x47 and I will check everthing from now on even things you should be able to take for granted.

post-12052-0-85853000-1465775021_thumb.jpg

post-12052-0-33250100-1465775058_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody at forster replied to my email and want to sort it out which hopefully will get me 200 more new cases and I can start again.

I am only familiar with fl sizing, I did have a forster neck for my 25 06.

since I started this thread ive heard of so many more things to do or not to do that I wasnt aware of.i do feel i was at fault the first cock up of all the brass being damaged as you said mjr, I should of checked but i didnt have my specs with me, my punishment was to neck turn the lot which I did most by hand as i found using the cordless screwdriver turner go really hot, i did ask a couple of people with no reply, i did learn today that you use a expander mandrel thats 1 thousanths bigger to expand cases to aide the neck turner then size after,there is so much to know and i am unfamiliar with alot of it, as for the wrong expander ball being in the die is outrageous and this i will not except reponsibility for.all looked good to me until I went to seat a bullet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


blackrifle.png

jr_firearms_200.gif

valkyrie 200.jpg

tab 200.jpg

Northallerton NSAC shooting.jpg

RifleMags_200x100.jpg

dolphin button4 (200x100).jpg

CASEPREP_FINAL_YELLOW_hi_res__200_.jpg

rovicom200.jpg

Lumensmini.png

CALTON MOOR RANGE (2) (200x135).jpg

bradley1 200.jpg

IMG-20230320-WA0011.jpg

NVstore200.jpg



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy