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The Right Choice part 2


Blacknsilver

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After lots of reading and advice and also chats with my FEO the choice I have made is for a

.204

 

I wanted it to tick a few boxes a it looked like is wasn't going to happen. Then I get a call off my very helpful FEO to say the .204 will be accepted.

It needed to be allowed to kill the Fox in north Wales but also not over kill for small game and pest control. Also some target shooting with it.

I will be eventually doing some hole loading.

So the mind is made up on caliber.

 

It's now the choice of rifle. Mod. Barrel length. Type of barrel.

Again advice is very welcome.

Regards

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Any reason why you didn't go the 223 route in the end? It would have appeared to be the best choice for ammo availability, home loading etc plus deer legal for muntjac. Was it a case of your FEO saying "no" to that? If so, I think I would have pushed the point personally, as providing that you have good reason, that or 243 seemed excellent calibres for your needs. Good luck with the .204 though, enjoy. I'm sure it'll do the job fine too.

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Any reason why you didn't go the 223 route in the end? It would have appeared to be the best choice for ammo availability, home loading etc plus deer legal for muntjac. Was it a case of your FEO saying "no" to that? If so, I think I would have pushed the point personally, as providing that you have good reason, that or 243 seemed excellent calibres for your needs. Good luck with the .204 though, enjoy. I'm sure it'll do the job fine too.

It turns out that my land is pass for .223 max

 

I didn't want just a dedicated Fox rifle. It had to tick more boxes. The .223 is to big for the rabbits so it was a no to that cal. The .204 I am allowed to shoot ground game and fox with it.

Reloading seem good with it. Reports on a dozen rounds per case with no problems.

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I'm with Varm on this one.

 

I am conditioned to shoot ground game, fox and deer with my .223. Though my ticket does not specifically state only muntjac and CWD, I know that. A pedantic point but . . .

 

I am interested when you state the result of your chats with the FEO had steered you in the direction of a .204. BTW, I have nothing against .204 cal.

 

I am more interested in the "influence" a FEO may have had when your land is passed for a .223 and a 40gn round in a .223 makes as much bang and costs pretty much the same as a .204 !!

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204 is an excellent round and you will be happy with it but not sure where your coming from saying the 223 is too big for rabbits as the 204 will turn them inside out just as quick as the 223

as a vermin rifle of the two i prefer the 204

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I'm with Varm on this one.

 

I am conditioned to shoot ground game, fox and deer with my .223. Though my ticket does not specifically state only muntjac and CWD, I know that. A pedantic point but . . .

 

I am interested when you state the result of your chats with the FEO had steered you in the direction of a .204. BTW, I have nothing against .204 cal.

 

I am more interested in the "influence" a FEO may have had when your land is passed for a .223 and a 40gn round in a .223 makes as much bang and costs pretty much the same as a .204 !!

I was the one enquiring over the .204.

I was sent the guidance

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518193/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf

The .223 is not suitable for rabbit. P123

Hence the .204.

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After lots of reading and advice and also chats with my FEO the choice I have made is for a

.204

 

I wanted it to tick a few boxes a it looked like is wasn't going to happen. Then I get a call off my very helpful FEO to say the .204 will be accepted.

It needed to be allowed to kill the Fox in north Wales but also not over kill for small game and pest control. Also some target shooting with it.

I will be eventually doing some hole loading.

So the mind is made up on caliber.

 

It's now the choice of rifle. Mod. Barrel length. Type of barrel.

Again advice is very welcome.

Regards

Good calibre choice although its rare you can eat anything you shoot , they get vaporised , I've got a CZ527 Varmint , it easily shoot sub moa.

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Why tell the FEO specifically you want to take rabbits with it?

 

When I get a rifle conditioned for over land, I ask for 'Deer, Fox, and any other legal quarry'. They have never even asked 'Do you plan on shooting crows and rabbits with your .260?'

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Correct me if i am wrong, but i am sure there is no law that states you cannot shoot a rabbit with any cal, yes there are home office guide lines but no law as such.

Adrian

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Black - I've just read page 123 to check for my own knowledge and peace of mind. It worries me when one force gives a different interpretation from another.

 

Page 123 categorically states "The purpose of this table is as a guide to establish initial "good reason".

 

I established good reason and have a .223. (Howa, cheap and accurate) for AOLQ which includes cuniculus

 

I respect that you enquired about the .204.

 

I find it "interesting" that you were sent the guidance.

 

Back to your original post, I was again looking at the new Tikka T3X today. Nice rifle. RRP £995. Having had blueprinted semi custom .204 - the initial challenge will be to find a bullet weight which works - 32gn or 40gn unless you handload.

 

There are chaps on here who have some seriously well set up .204's who can advise better than I. Your budget will be a key determining factor as will the type of shooting you are doing - sniping / from a truck / walkaround.

 

All the best with your choice.

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I was the one enquiring over the .204.

I was sent the guidance

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518193/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf

The .223 is not suitable for rabbit. P123

Hence the .204.

 

 

NO. That is not the case. This is so typical of such decisions by some FEOs. Shooting rabbits is not GOOD REASON to have a 223 which is NOT the same thing as saying the 223 is not a suitable calibre for rabbit control. Dead is dead and by your own admission, you don't shoot for the pot. Fox IS good reason for a 223 therefore you could have had a 223 and the police would have to have had a very good reason for refusing you that. You would have had 223 for fox and AOLQ which would cover rabbit too.

 

Good reason might also be that 200yd shots on rabbit for the purposes of rabbit & say crow control where you couldn't get much closer (I know) means that heavier rounds that buck the wind better would result in more chances of humane kills. It's up to the individual to make the case for good reason. P123 is JUST guidance and NOT the law. That all aside, the 204 should do everything you need and is no less "lethal" nor "dangerous" than 223 ;)

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Thanks for all the help. I realise that it is only a guide and not law.

Doing my usual research brought up a chap who was refused the .204 for fox in north wales. Then due to him involving other party's it was then changed.

I fancied the .204 down to its low recoil and flat shooting.

I want to stay on the right side of the law and if ever questioned I am 100% covered in what I am doing. Being fairly new to it all I ask a lot of questions. Which then you get mixed answers.

 

There won't be much shooting done from the pick up. So a walk and stalk will be the approach. Quite a few areas on my perm where I can dig in and take long shots that cover a good degree of area.

 

So many conflicting views on barrel length and weight.

I was looking to buy a Sako 85. Like a lot of the features of the rifle. I have been offered a semi custom tikka t3 stainless

Comes in a black varmint stock with a lightened (baldie spring) trigger. load data included for 39grain blitz kings and has a 1-11 twist.

With DM80 mod. The gentleman selling is close to home and it's half the price of the Sako so I will arrange a look at that.

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Guide:(ballistic etc):

 

Relative recoil factor 17Rem .45; 204 Ruger .60; 223Rem .80

 

As a 'what you hit,is what you see' the 17Rem was excellent,even unmoderated-which might make them all OK.

 

200y zero,10 mph wind,24 barrel,SAAMI:

 

204 Ruger: Hornady 40g Vmax BC.275 @3900 100y -.7/.8; 200y 0/3.3; 300y 4.3/7.8 ; 400y 13.2/14.7

 

223 Rem: Hornady 40g Vmax BC.200 @3800 100y -1.2/1.6 200y 0/5 ; 300y 5.5/11.9; 400y 17.6/22.9

 

223 Rem: Black Hills 60 Vmax BC.260@ 3100 100y -1.5/1.1 200y 0/4.6; 300y 8.2/12.9; 400y 23.5/20.8

 

The 204 may well have the advantage within the 300y comfort zone (10% wind error still gives a good hit).

The 204 has an energy advantage (eg 204 300y 674 ft lb,223 300y 576ft lb) but both are adequate for fox (and rabbit).

 

The 223rem has longer range potential,but then needs fast twist barrels and heavy,high BC bullets-often match not varmint.

Then it is out of normal hit % comfort zones eg Black Hills 77 Match KIng BC .362 @2780 400y 25/17; 500y 52/28; 600y 91/42.

 

The 17 Rem (25g@4000fps) was an extremely dependable terminal cartridge on rabbit,without meat destruction usually.

I'd expect the 204 to be equally terminal,perhaps more destructive,but that may not matter,not that a frangible 223 won't do an effective job!

 

gbal

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Good summary gbal. This shows the lunacy of the guidelines and FEO understanding. The 204 has more potential for damage to whatever it hits out to surprising distances compared with the 223 due to its velocity advantage. For bunnies alone, I would go with the 17 Remington. The 204 is a great all round vermin rifle but I know of some who cannot readily get ammo close to home, hence the 222/223 seems still to be the universal choice from that perspective alone (hence why it is widely recommended). Good point RE weight of vermin rounds. U use 60g Vmax and plinking with them at 400 yards a few days back, had no problem in a slight crosswind of achieving sub moa. They were zipping out quite hot which that bullet seems to like in my rifle (3100fps in 60grain). The 69g TMKs start to score from 400 yards onwards, and heavier Amax are also very good (and good on vermin as are TMKs!).

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