Remington trigger tune

[bradders]

Big Al mentioned possibly starting a Gunplumbing sub-forum, so I thought I'd share this with all y'all

There's been plenty of talk about Remington triggers and tuning them, there's also another thread running on here about "Remington Moments"

 

I'm actually a fan of the original 700 trigger and with the correct work it can be made to work really well.

Now, plenty of people are capable of breaking the seal on the screws and twiddling them to get a better feel, but to go all the way you need to permanently attach the trigger connector bar to the trigger itself.

It's the bar that does the work as the trigger is an investment casting or similar. and is merely held in place by a spring and luck!

 

I was told and shown many years ago that to do the job properly and remove any inconsistency, the bar should be permanently affixed, and the method I was shown was silver soldering.

This is how I have always done it

 

Disassembled trigger (housing is actually arse about face) but you can see the trigger and bar

 

This is how they fit together

 

Cleaned with 240 emery

 

I use this, 55% cadmium free silver solder and flux.

 

Mix the flux with water to form a paste and cover surfaces to be joined

 

I use MAPP gas, I don't think propane or butane generate enough heat, and heat until just starting to turn cherry red, apply solder and let it flow

No pics of this part as I only have 2 hands and no assistant :-)

 

Finished item, I blasted to clean up and also show the solder joint and you can see I have full flow penetration

 

Now once reassembled you can adjust to suit and when happy, seal the screws with nail varnish or similar

 

Thanks for looking

[jcampbellsmith]

A very neat job. Regards JCS

[Cad Monkey]

Nice work and thank you for sharing.

[Mik Mak]

cheaper to put a Jewel on :-)

Mik

[bradders]

cheaper to put a Jewel on :-)

Mik

 

 

Not really, the solder and flux are just over a tenner and the gas is about the same....and they have a multitude of uses.

 

If all people did was swap parts then skills get lost....I thought you lot called yourselves gunsmiths

[Mik Mak]

I know, just taking the Pee, couldn't help myself :-)

 

The process looks very interesting, got a load of crap Rem 700 triggers here, may well give it a go

 

Glad you have a sense of Humour

 

Mik

[Danpd]

The only issue I have with what you have done Mark is one of liability. If the client has an accident with a trigger you have intrinsically altered from manufacturers original spec, then you are liable for that. If you fit an aftermarket trigger then you pass that onus onto the manufacturer. Interesting none the less.

 

Also, in a non-critical vein I'm just sitting here wondering whether heating one of the sear surfaces of the trigger to cherry red is such a great idea, to avoid premature wear both surfaces should be of equal hardness, and to my mind basically you have just annealed one of them

[bradders]

The only issue I have with what you have done Mark is one of liability. If the client has an accident with a trigger you have intrinsically altered from manufacturers original spec, then you are liable for that. If you fit an aftermarket trigger then you pass that onus onto the manufacturer. Interesting none the less.

 

Also, in a non-critical vein I'm just sitting here wondering whether heating one of the sear surfaces of the trigger to cherry red is such a great idea, to avoid premature wear both surfaces should be of equal hardness, and to my mind basically you have just annealed one of them

 

There's nothing special about the hardness of that piece of steel that the connector is made of, and this is the way many are taught at the various gunsmithing schools in the US.

I was shown this around 13 years ago and have performed it on plenty of occasions with no issues reported.

If anything it helps to eliminate some of the possibilities of failure, but once again it surprises (or doesn't) that it's never been accepted here.

I thought it was the norm.

 

People were doing this long before trigger liability became an issue.

 

Doesn't anyone here weld?

[Grum87]

Call me old fashioned, but surely the shooter is ultimately liable for any accident that results in damage to property, or harm/death to a person?

 

While I agree any job with regards to firearms should be done to the best possible standard when it comes to safety. Whether loaded or not, a gun shouldn't be pointed at something the shooter isn't willing to destroy or kill.....whether that's aiming, general handling, loading/unloading, etc......so if a shooter has an accident, whether mechanical failure is a factor or not, if they harm someone, or damage property, they've still mis-handled their firearm.......

 

Obviously Law Enforcement/Military/Security is a different ball-game when it comes to firearms......

[gbal]

Grum,

there was a thread here fairly recently on the Rem 700 unintended discharges issue,and some of the corporate history and liability issues (including some out of court settlements...).

 

The probably rare-given sales to date over 5 million- but never totally denied incidents were pointed out to Rem by Mike Walker who designed the trigger,and suggested a fix ( it involved a fault in this very trigger bar,allegedly). Remington rejected the idea...

I don't want to resurrect all that,but the information -as available- does suggest some corporate responsibility,notwithstanding your emphasis on careful gun handling....essentially rifle discharges when closing the bolt are not shooter liability...much of course is alleged-there is no direct documented evidence,...no one had a camera running!

Nor are such issues unique to Remington-though their corporate response-ie to deny- is very murky.

 

gbal.

[Grum87]

My understanding of the Remy issue is that the issues occur at the extreme(low) end of adjustment. Fairly sure most manufacturers would walk away in such a case. As with most industries. 'Did you d!ck with it pal?' 'I adjusted xyz' 'Not our problem then.....'.

 

I do agree its a bit poo of any company to allow a product with a known issue to stay in the market place without a fix/recall for so long, without either remedying the issue or modifying the product so it cannot be adjusted to such an extreme.

 

But I'm still of the opinion that proper gun handling in a sporting/target environment would be a good start to not shooting your pals, through mechanical failure, or just being too dim to own a firearm..........

[bradders]

My understanding of the Remy issue is that the issues occur at the extreme(low) end of adjustment. Fairly sure most manufacturers would walk away in such a case. As with most industries. 'Did you d!ck with it pal?' 'I adjusted xyz' 'Not our problem then.....'.

 

I do agree its a bit poo of any company to allow a product with a known issue to stay in the market place without a fix/recall for so long, without either remedying the issue or modifying the product so it cannot be adjusted to such an extreme.

 

But I'm still of the opinion that proper gun handling in a sporting/target environment would be a good start to not shooting your pals, through mechanical failure, or just being too dim to own a firearm..........

 

So when the screw is backed off to get a really light trigger, the spring tension on the trigger connector bar is very low.

This Walker guy says that's where the issue is, and with low tension it can move and become inconsistent or unsafe

Am I wrong?

 

I show an old American gunsmithing tip, no-one here has come across it before..and it gets questioned!!!!!

Surely that unsafe thing has been made better

 

I give up and won't show you any more cool tips in future, everyone knows better

 

I may start another thread about what's the best way to screw aftermarket parts on and call it custom!!

[Grum87]

 

So when the screw is backed off to get a really light trigger, the spring tension on the trigger connector bar is very low.

This Walker guy says that's where the issue is, and with low tension it can move and become inconsistent or unsafe

Am I wrong?

 

I show an old American gunsmithing tip, no-one here has come across it before..and it gets questioned!!!!!

Surely that unsafe thing has been made better

 

I give up and won't show you any more cool tips in future, everyone knows better

 

I may start another thread about what's the best way to screw aftermarket parts on and call it custom!!

 

 

For the record....I've no problem with what you've shown Infact I enjoy seeing some of the tricks of the trade, nor do I know better.

[duey]

Bradders

 

That is a great bit of easy to do trigger fix that helps To resolve remmy trigger issues that I will probably do or get done myself on my two remmys that have standard triggers

 

Please keep the tips coming

 

Duey

[Shuggy]

So when the screw is backed off to get a really light trigger, the spring tension on the trigger connector bar is very low.

This Walker guy says that's where the issue is, and with low tension it can move and become inconsistent or unsafe

Am I wrong?

 

I show an old American gunsmithing tip, no-one here has come across it before..and it gets questioned!!!!!

Surely that unsafe thing has been made better

 

I give up and won't show you any more cool tips in future, everyone knows better

 

I may start another thread about what's the best way to screw aftermarket parts on and call it custom!!

As I understand it, the safety issue that can arise with the Walker trigger is if a piece of rust or crud gets between the connector and the trigger shoe. Your mod would completely eliminate that possibility, so it looks like a neat solution.

 

Don't be disheartened - keep 'em coming!

[Davy]

I like the idea of using slightly lower melting point silver solder. I use the standard stuff quite often for a multitude of things in the workshop including the occasional trigger.

[baldie]

The old trigger unit [ like this one ] was a far safer, and more adjustable unit than the bag of junk now fitted.

 

Both Timney and Rifle basix are a copy of it.

 

Mark's trick works well, and if you are concerned about the heat involved in silver soldering, then use electricians solder. The joint is plenty strong enough and requires far less heat.

 

I have a bag full of X mark pro,s....anyone who doesn't like the old units, can have a swap for one. I'll take these old triggers all day long.

[lapua]

Bradders, how much would you sell one of these for please?

[fivehole]

^{Well done to bradders for this post.}

[1971silversurfer]

An interesting insight and tip of the trade, keep them coming. It looks like this is one of those jobs that can be performed by the average Joe without lots of equipment.

 

It would be nice to see further tips like this on this site with subjects such as bedding, polishing, blueing, stock work etc. Im sure that these kind of posts wont be giving away too many trade secrets and hope the trade would contribute some ideas towards.

 

Great post bradders.

[lapua]

Bradders, dont bother telling me the cost i've bought a jewel. £275.

[TattooedGun]

Interesting writeup. Makes me wish i hadn't gone for the rifle basix and stuck with what i had.

Thanks for sharing.

[enigma]

I'm glad I still have an original trigger, but I cant seem to get any adjustment on my trigger, seems previous owner has rounded all the tiny hex screws.

 

Just out of curiosity could this trigger(with obvious fettling) be bought down to a safe 1-1.5 lb pull weight and made smoother and crisper.

 

Also just on a side note does anyone actually know of a good gun smith circa Birmingham.....cos when I had a previous issue not a single person in Birmingham would either let me make an appointment to see them or answer there phones, even sending me a single message telling me they were to busy. I ended up making a 260mile round trip for a ten min job.

[TattooedGun]

I'm glad I still have an original trigger, but I cant seem to get any adjustment on my trigger, seems previous owner has rounded all the tiny hex screws.

 

Just out of curiosity could this trigger(with obvious fettling) be bought down to a safe 1-1.5 lb pull weight and made smoother and crisper.

 

Also just on a side note does anyone actually know of a good gun smith circa Birmingham.....cos when I had a previous issue not a single person in Birmingham would either let me make an appointment to see them or answer there phones, even sending me a single message telling me they were to busy. I ended up making a 260mile round trip for a ten min job.

 

Norman Clarke in Rugby is highly regarded and probably the best actual gun-smith in the Midlands.

 

Had my Rem 700 worked on by him last year and it came back shooting better than I ever expected. It can be a bit of a drive though, but is well stocked and it's worthwhile if you're after components as well as work to your rifle.

[enigma]

 

Norman Clarke in Rugby is highly regarded and probably the best actual gun-smith in the Midlands.

 

Had my Rem 700 worked on by him last year and it came back shooting better than I ever expected. It can be a bit of a drive though, but is well stocked and it's worthwhile if you're after components as well as work to your rifle.

 

Thanks for that TG....noticed I'm quite close to you(being from the BC myself ((West Brom)). I will have to take a drive over one day and go see him about a small issue I have with my 700.