.223 F/TR barrel rifling

[searlock]

Hello all, I'm beginning a build for 600 yard rifle. I don't have any experience with the 223 in a bolt gun, and i'd like to know if there is a rifling that is preferred in this F/TR application. I plan to shoot berger 80.5 gr and the 30 inch heavy palma barrel will be throated for it, at 1 in 7 twist. I'm leaning towards a Obermeyer 5 R. I'd appreciate advise from those more knowledgeable on this subject. I currently shoot 308 F/TR, so i'm not totally in the dark. Thanks.

[baldie]

5R rifling has been known to shoot slower than conventional rifling. Not an advantage in a long range gun.

[searlock]

Intresting, i've not heard that. Frank Green of Bartlien Barrels says 5R has no effect on velocity or pressure in 30 cal 175gr and heavier.However Kirby Allen says 3 groove barrels gave him problems at high velocity because of baring (sic) surface compression with j4 jackets

[The Gun Pimp]

Not many shooters choose the 223 for serious F Class but we have one on this forum and hopefully Laurie will chip in.

 

He successfully campaigned a 223 FTR rifle a few seasons ago using 90gn bullets.

[Laurie]

Ouch ... don't ask me about numbers of grooves and configurations. Barrels either work for me .... or sometimes they don't! So far I've used two 0.224 barrels for 223 Rem with uber-heavies - a 7.5-inch twist Bartlein 4-groove and a 7-inch twist True-Flite with six grooves (all that this company will provide 7-twist 224s in). Both worked very well with 90s despite 7.5 being an over-slow twist rate. (But it was a light barrel and used only for 200-600 yards, the 6-groove True-Flite being on the long-range FTR rifle.)

 

Neither liked 80s very much or the 80.5gn Berger. This was likely because the super-long freebore we used for the 90gn Berger VLD just doesn't suit these bullets. A correspondent in Scotland with a rifle built by the Dolphin Gun Co. with the same sort of throating in a 7-twist Bartlein has found the same things.

 

I get the impression that more than a few American .20 and .224 fast twist barrel users with various cartridges like 3-groove barrels. Others say they allegedly put too much stress on long thin-jacketed (J4 jacket) bullets. Who knows? I think it's still true that there isn't a concensus about a lot of things with 223 as a heavy bullet, long-range cartridge.

 

Also, there is a view that the quality of the barrel material and the expertise of the barrel-maker is what counts, not the number of grooves or whether they're conventional form or ratchet / canted. Have a look at post number 25 by FrankG (Frank Green of Bartlein Barrels) on this Accurate Shooter Forum thread.

 

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bartlein-5r-or-standard-4-groove-in-284-8-5twist.3877336/

[Laurie]

It's interesting too what Frank Green says on that post about the 5R form and 6PPC bench guns and his view on using the larger of the two prevalent 6mm bore dimension options.

[searlock]

I found the forum at accurate shooter to be helpful and so i'm looking to the 5 groove conventional rifled barrel. Many thanks for comments. As far as serious shooter is concerned, that might have been me 40 years ago. Now its a hobby to be enjoyed rather than fretted over. I still like to have good equipment because i'm spending the money anyway.

[Binnzy]

Hi Searlock

 

I went through a similar developmental process for a .223 for FTR late last year, where Laurie was generous in providing advice.

 

The rifle is a Gemini stocked, RPA Quadlite action that was re-barreled by Mik from Dolphin, with a 1 in 7 inch, 3 groove Lilja barrel finished at 30 inches in a med-Palma contour. The chamber was cut specifically for the 90gn Berger VLD with 0.25 inch of freebore.

 

This particular rifle was purchased for my wife to use in FTR. I developed a 2785 fps Varget load with the 90 gn Berger VLD (15 thou Jam, ES 11 SD 6) which drops bullets one on top of each other at 100 yds (0.25 MOA). On her first time out shooting full-bore, she scored a 'possible' at 330 winning the club competition, with the scorer reporting that all shots were grouped into around an inch. Second time out was another 'possible' at 330 yds. Very ...very promising start for both her and the rifle...and it got me worried!

 

Sadly, the 90gn VLD became impossible to source in the UK at the back end of last year (with no production run due for another couple of months I believe), so I then needed to develop an alternative load.

 

Absolutely no joy with either the 80.5gn Berger or the 80gn AMAX - normal tinkering techniques couldn't deliver anything below 0.5 MOA for 5 rounds at 100yds.

 

The saving grace has been the 75gn AMAX in a 2900fps Varget load with a bit of a jump (not planning on taking this beyond 600yds).

 

Back over to the wife with the 75gn AMAX...another possible at 330 yds in heavy snow and a disaster at 500 yds...she dropped one V bull over the string and had her first ever 5! Has she beaten me? Well, not yet, I broke my wrist (don't try and keep up with teenagers on mountain bikes) and have been watching from the sidelines for the last few months...

 

In summary, to date we have experienced stunning performance with the .223 / Berger 90 gn VLD / Varget combo. I could not get the 80gn series of bullets to perform as well as I wanted, but the 75gn AMAX will work very nicely in a chamber cut with 0.25 inch of freebore without having to be pushed too hard. Now we are just waiting impatiently for Berger to start making the 90gn VLD again.

 

Am I worried she is going to beat me this season with a mouse gun?...You bet! (certainly <600yds). So much so that I will shortly be picking up a new .308 FTR rifle from Mik in the very near future, to keep the household a little more competitve, and leave me without any excuses whatsoever.

[searlock]

Hello Binnzy, that is an interesting account of the Lilja barrel. My smith recommended the same barrel to me. I decline it because of it being button rifled as i believe stress induced in the metal during the rifling process isn't there in the cut rifle process. I've not had much success with the VLD ogive and much prefer the hybrid design from Berger, barring that i go for tangent ogive. I plan to shoot the Berger 80.5 grain which are impossible to find here presently. About a week ago i purchased a used Savage model 12 vlp 26 inch 1 in 7 twist to work with while i wait for a Rock Creek barrel. Using the Nosler 80 gr. i've begun load development, with the less than optimal throat of the Savage using Varget powder. My next match at 600 yards is in two weeks and can already see difficulty at my 300 yard range here on the farm. I have Reloader 15, MR 2000, and IMR 4064 to work with also. Congratulations to your wife on her shooting ability.