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6.5 RSAUM


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Maybe he is using one rifle for a variety of uses. While it probably is more firepower than required for a fox, it's still cheaper than having two nice rifles, one for foxing, and one for deer.....

 

Just my 2p, I've a .260 on ticket for foxing and deer....

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Now,now Neil-don't be so parochial.

There's a guy on here uses a 6.5-06,though he may not go out in the dark.

 

There are some big beasts in N America,prone to get annoyed too-could mean a grisly death.

 

Seen that way,the 6.5 SAUM is then rather on the light side.

 

Chanonry,the 6.5 class,and their offspring 6mms are still rightly popular with PRS shooters (few of whom seem to maidens,though no doubt some may be Iron Maiden fans) and dominate such competitions at the highest levels. (I mean 6.5/6 x47,or 6.5/6 CM class -even 260/243).

 

SAUM's are for quite differnt applications-among other factors,recoil would be counterproductivly high for PRS competitions (hit the gong,yes-perforate it,no-similar considerations to US metallic silhouette shooting-which developed it's own 'just enough energy'cartridges soon enough-like 7-08 etc).

 

 

gbal

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Night vision is not strickly lamping but you get my gist.you are correct George. I am not being hypocritical.this guy does use it in the dark.i am off out now.the saum is doing around 275fps more than my loads,my 6.5 06 does is all.i don't want loads of rifles.yeah i know.wash my mouth out with soap.i don't want a dedicated foxing rifle.my rifles have to be universal.

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Maybe he is using one rifle for a variety of uses. While it probably is more firepower than required for a fox, it's still cheaper than having two nice rifles, one for foxing, and one for deer.....

 

Just my 2p, I've a .260 on ticket for foxing and deer....

My next variation will have .260 on it , seems like a good all-rounder for the UK , fox and all deer plus some long range paper , off the shelf Tikka /Sako calibre , win win win.

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My next variation will have .260 on it , seems like a good all-rounder for the UK , fox and all deer plus some long range paper , off the shelf Tikka /Sako calibre , win win win.

All of the above....except tikka/sako. I went Remington ;)(will let you know if the bolt handle comes off or if it does t shoot .2moa :D)

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You're right though, seems like a good all round cartridge, time will tell.

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Where did anyone mention lamping or foxes?

there was a mention of expensive night vision so I assumed foxing was the intended use.

This is all driven off the PRS speed limit of 3100 fps isn't it ?

 

So GA wants to throw a high bc 6.5 bullet at the speed limit hence SAUM, which gives him an advantage over the 6.5x47L, 6.5 CM, 260 crowd.

 

Presumably (but I have not checked) he will see some advantage over the girls shooting 6mm Hybrids. If I recall correctly they were popular because the velocity advantage they have over the 'regular' 6.5 cartridges outweighed their slightly poorer BC.

 

They will be looking at 7RM next ?!

 

Just when they were all getting excited about 6.5 CM, turns out it is not the answer to a maidens prayer after all.

 

it doesnt matter much being that it would have the velocity advantage over the other 6.5 cals,the difference in windage is minimal and would still require good wind reading to use the small advanrage
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Entering 3100fps in my bal cal for the 6.5 rsaum was a little more wind bucking than I thought, its about 5 inches straiter than my 6.5 06s current conservative velocity in a 10mph full value wind at 1000yds,the other 6.5s aren't not much difference to mine depending on the length of the barrel,not sure the 140gr amaxs will like the 3100fps, there has been talk on here of bullets decintagrating after exiting the bore.defo a barrel burner, not much in difference between the 6.5 rsaum and the new nosler 6.5 then, I am sure the saum will still be fun to shoot all the same, I like shooting the 338 lap mag so recoil is irrelevant to me

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The 6.5 SAUM was introduced by George for his extreme hunter rifle, not to conform the PRS speed limits.

 

GAP use the 6mm Creedmoor in their comp rifles

 

 

Check the youtube video of GA interviewed by the 6.5 Guys's at Shot 2016 and you can listen to George tell you other wise.

 

"I only shoot 6.5 G4S for everything now"

 

I didn't make it up

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GG is in business to sell rifles,including to Practical precision shooters.

 

If we look at the top PRS series competition shooters in 2015,they are almost all shooting 'medium 6.5 or 6mm cartridges.

 

(that's 260rem,6.5x47L,6.5 Creedmore and the 6mm derivatives of those,with smattering of eg Dashers,and 6.5x55s.)

 

I can't imagine anyone choosing say the 6.5 Saum-too much recoiletc.

 

On a wider front,we know the 6.5 just plain works as a medium game/target cartridge,and has done since the 1890s....

 

Read Chuck Hawk's excellent review " The 6.5 Cartridge Family"- it's pretty good.

 

It does miss some of the European military 6.5s(Daudeleau,Dutch/Romanian/ etc) but includes the more common ones,and indicates which were big as sporting numbers. The 6.5 Swedish ,eg-also still a top choice in some scandinavian practical shooting (with modern loads it's in the 260rem class). any of the older 6.5s were somewhat underloaded because of the rifle actions and old powders etc.

He covers a bit of history and the more modern numbers,from 1960 on-though the Lazzeronis and 260 Nosler are too recent for this review.

It all puts the current trio (260,6.5x47 and CM into perspective-not much new.

The 6.5x57 Mauser of 1894 pretty well said most of what mattered,and was highly influential esp in Europe.

 

There are of course some wildcats-mostly in US and based on the 30-06 necked-let's mention the 6.5 Gibbs iI the 1950's,and his 256 Gibbs magnum (more 6.5 swedish?0,and the great Newton 256 in 1913 (these latter two using the British lands diameter naming system.)

The 6.5-06 and Ackley just contined this work...and there minor variations of shoulder etc).

 

The 66.5x58R had some success in Denmark in the Krag Jorgenson rifles-an unusual target adaptation in 1933-butagain,precedes the current 3 Musketeers.

There has been an occasional more recent Euro hunting round-eg the 1988 6.5x68 RWS of 1988.

 

Of course,Britain hasd a minor role-at one time THE stalking rifle up to WW11 was the M/S 6.5x54 often in carbine form.Or rather the London bespoke versions using M/S rifles,but renamed '256" Rigby,eg- land again -ditto 7x57 as Rigby 276. Naughty,but very,very, nice-even had take down ones easy train travel to the hills...folding stocks,anyone?)

 

And ,finally-though more a 266 than 264 usually,one of the rare unsuccessfuls-the 260 BSA of 1921-yes,our BSA-actually a rather advanced Rimless Belted Nitro Express design; but victim of the 'velocity at any cost' approach,as it was only loaded with 110 bullets. Shame-we might have genuinely been ahead of the game in UK.

 

As said,and amply demonstrated,this class of 6.5 rifle cartridges just work well on medium quarry-some even on bigger stuff,when using very long,heavy penetrative bullets (not plastic tips,but good BC-though that hadn't been invented!) :-)

 

gbal

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Check the youtube video of GA interviewed by the 6.5 Guys's at Shot 2016 and you can listen to George tell you other wise.

 

"I only shoot 6.5 G4S for everything now"

 

I didn't make it up

It certainly wasn't so in 2015 and I'm not sure if there have been any PRS comps this year. Certainly the 6mm Creedmoor topped the table. But that doesn't mean George will use it in the future.

 

Best-Precision-Rifle-Caliber.png

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Scotch's table is the data I refered to....it is very clear that the medium 6.5 and 6mm totally dominate the top 100 shooters in the US PRS series competitons.

 

Within that ,it is pretty clear which are 'the best' (but see below)...combining the cartridges used in the top 50/100 then the 6.5 Lapua has 22,the 6.5 Creedmore 20;and for 6mm it's 16 6x47 Lapua and 13CM.

 

No other cartridge comes antwhwere near overall-so the best 6.5-using the criterion of what do the best 100 PRS shooters use-is the 6.5 Lapua ,marginally from the 6.5 CM;reverses for the 6mms.

But note the dominance of these two basic designs; Creedmore 38 users,Lapua 35 ie 73/100 in all.

 

"The best 6.5"...well,best is meaningless without context/criteria. AS Above it's pretty clear what thebest 6.5 is currently considered to be among top PR shooters-6.5L just from 6.5 CM

 

But this would not be the statistics for 'most used 6.5 elk cartridge in Scandinavia" (thats the 6.5 Swedish.

 

Or which 6.5 is has most velocity and energy? (Nosler 260)

 

Best carryrifle for UK deer...probably the 6lb M/S 6.4x54,certainly pre war,in the heyday of classic hill stalking.

 

and so on and forth.....there might even be a winning niche for the 6.5-06,but offhand I can't think what it might be (best current shooting 6.5 with a crazy paving barrel? :-)

 

Arguably,to take a different tack,they are all overly potent for fox,though effective......W Bell probably shot more elephant with his 6.5 than anyone ever shot foxes with theirs ....but so what.....?

 

gbal

 

 

 

..

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Neil,the top guys in PRS would kick ass -they are getting first round hits cold bore on 1-2 moa targets under pressure and real world conditions out to 800+ yards.,so not bums at all.

 

Have a look too at say, "NBRSA 600y Nationals Equipment list" (2010) on Benchrest Central site.

 

But the 1000y rigs will be quite different-while Dashers can hack it -with benign conditions-at 1000y,the consistent good shooters are going beyond the one time bench mark 6.5x284,to more potent,typically 7mm cartridges- in the 7WSM class see Vince's comments too on this-it's the 'winningest' currently.

 

Remember the 6x47 Lapua was designed to topple the 6BR from top spot in 300 m competition,and on out to 600. It does well beyond that brief,but it just does not have the pop to really take on the bigger 7s.

And neither does the 6BR,despite its wonderful accuracy and shootability...it can podium,and shoot record groups,but windy day in /day out ,the 7WSM class will do better. It's just a more reliable horse for that course.

That does NOT mean the 7WSM is the best cartridge for the club shooter-the "jack of all trades,master of a few" 308w will give many more seaons of barrel life,for example; or the 6BR might be for the medium range only shooter;the 6.5s for the varied deer/fox/range shooter.....and so on.

 

gbal

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Neil,remember the 308 isn't the cartridge of choice for really good performance (groups) at 1000y,though it occasionally gives 1/2 moa goups,and more often does not.....though, as Vince says,'like for like' may mitigate that a little-not many out and out 1000y Bench Rest rifles-or even F class- are chambered in 308..(I wonder why....:-)? though of course it's mandatory in TR shooting.

 

As for lying down,these days I am 'prone' to attacks of prostrate bipoditis,and really need a more mature shooting style,which Bradders confirms is more appropriate anyhow. :-)

g

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It will be interesting to see who turns up to PRS shoots next year with a 6.5 Saum. Early posters comments about GAP and 6 Creed are of course correct but is GG himself signalling a shift? Is this the inevitable result of those chasing best ballistics in a competitive situation in that you end up with a magnum ?? Don't know, but statistics for last year may not reflect the emerging trend or at lease an experiment.

 

Given it is timed and targets can be hard to see will the increase in recoil may outweigh the improved ballistics ?

 

The other issue the series seems to have is calling hits correctly. 6mm impacts on distant targets that have had the paint blasted off have been hard to see. This may be addressed by the proposed addition of electronic hit indicators.

 

For me the constraint with the '7.62 class' of cartridges is the case. There is only so much energy that can be had and while we can fiddle with the calibre and trade off on the balletic characteristics this does not make one calibre inherently superior to the other it is just a cartridge adapted to a slightly different performance band. For an inherently better solution (whatever that means) we need to start with more energy = different case.

 

You can't put a 180r bullet into a Red deer with a 6.5L and you can't get to 1500 yards with a 308.

 

Something about free lunches....

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