stephentri Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hi has any of you tried the 69 or 77 grain tipped match kings on vermin just wondering if they expand like amax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967spud Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 amax dont expand they are a target bullet their brother the vmax thats an expanding bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephentri Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I know the vmax is for vermin but they don't make a high BC bullet in the vmax range. That's why a lot of long range vermin shooters use amax, the end result on a crow is the same as a vmax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have read that the TMK bullets expand as well as Amax, which should be fine for vermin. I have some 77gr but haven't got around to trying them yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 What cartridges-eg 223rem-are we using,and how far away are these long range crows ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 i use them in .224 and .30 cal this is a .208gr after the event...expands nicely I use 52gr Amax (or did until recently) exclusively on foxes, vermin works well if you really want to open them up pull the tips!! (only joking!, testing a length theory in some load development) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyw Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Bewsh what did you use the 208gn on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewsh Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 big stuff....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akeld Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 amax dont expand they are a target bullet their brother the vmax thats an expanding bullet I think the key word's are "designed to expand", despite being a target bullet as you rightly say, Amax have alway expanded when I've used them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 amax dont expand they are a target bullet their brother the vmax thats an expanding bullet Have you shot any vermin with Amax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 What cartridges-eg 223rem-are we using,and how far away are these long range crows ? What cartridges-eg 223rem-are we using,and how far away are these long range crows ?Stephentri re OP,I was interested in which cartridge and distance for crows to see if BC is as critical as is sometimes assumed-on varmints,terminal performace is what matters,and that is a function of bullet weight and construction,calibre,velocity. BC is a source of 'not adding up'-whatever that means,but often for inaccurae input data for that rile,and th somwhat unsatisfactory status of G1 BCs,but not G7s-if only those were all available.BC does play some part in velocity retention though,if that is accurately known for th load.But BC is seondary to velocity for say under 350 yards-depending on calibre,and assuming BC differences are not huge-as they won't be for Vmax and Amax,so worth sorting out ballistics,before geting into 'expansion' issues.Whn predictions don't match good field data (carefully measured drops and velocities) it's probably better to massage BC,esp if it's G1.But worth a look at actual BC effects first.....hence cartridge/calibre,bullet weight and range info helpful/essential. With very small tarets-3 inch crows-accuracy may well be as/more important-you have to hit them,first! gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephentri Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 yes its a .223 i have used 50 grain v max out to 350 yards but feel the 75 grain amax or equivalent would be better when pushing it to 450 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breacher Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Has anybody cross sectioned an AMAX and a VMAX to compare them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I have read that the TMK bullets expand as well as Amax, which should be fine for vermin. I have some 77gr but haven't got around to trying them yet I have put about 700 of the 69s through my blaser lrs2 1-9 twist. They are a devastating round on rabbits out to 670 yards-my furthest. I have used hornady 75gr bthp to great effect aswell. To answer your question about expansion. They expand very well indeed and are now my go to bullet for my rifle. 5 shot group at 100 yards of 0.160 inch. Very accurate bullet with h335 cci 400 primers and neck turned lapua brass. Best of both worlds for target and vermin. Although the bthp s give them a very close run for damage and accuracy. Rabbits also to 670 and 5 shot group of 0.180 inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 What's the heaviest you can load to mag length ? I love the 75amax in my 1-8 Sako 75 but it's a single load option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave thorniley Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 can I ask are you allowed on your ticket to shoot vermin with a centre fire because I cant unless stated on ticket if you can great im jealous I can only use my c fire for fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Yes, my certificate says vermin & AOLQ - there is no mention of caliber in relation to any specific types of vermin. The guys who run Northumbria are a sensible bunch, very friendly and also generally very efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggy Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Dave I can't and wouldn't comment on anybody else's individual circumstances but to answer your question I am with Dyfed Powys Police and have both .243 and 6.5X47 on an open ticket.Both rifles have Deer, fox and the magic cavieat AOLQ - Any other legal quarry. With my licencing force they don't advertise that they will add the aforementioned condition but will do if requested by an applicant. This condition was aggreed recently at a meeting with all FAC licencing bodies when the ridiculous situation of individual Police Forces applying different conditions to FAC applicants was brought up by disgruntled FAC holders. This information can be found by downloading the Firearms Act but I am still aware of some Police Forces holding out and not granting what was aggreed. A call to your licencing body may provide you with an answer and of course if not acceptable a further call to the BASC would help as long as you are a member. Good luck with getting what you need on your ticket. Froggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarovski1 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Stephentri re OP,I was interested in which cartridge and distance for crows to see if BC is as critical as is sometimes assumed-on varmints,terminal performace is what matters,and that is a function of bullet weight and construction,calibre,velocity. BC is a source of 'not adding up'-whatever that means,but often for inaccurae input data for that rile,and th somwhat unsatisfactory status of G1 BCs,but not G7s-if only those were all available.BC does play some part in velocity retention though,if that is accurately known for th load.But BC is seondary to velocity for say under 350 yards-depending on calibre,and assuming BC differences are not huge-as they won't be for Vmax and Amax,so worth sorting out ballistics,before geting into 'expansion' issues.Whn predictions don't match good field data (carefully measured drops and velocities) it's probably better to massage BC,esp if it's G1. But worth a look at actual BC effects first.....hence cartridge/calibre,bullet weight and range info helpful/essential. With very small tarets-3 inch crows-accuracy may well be as/more important-you have to hit them,first! gbal hi g, ive shot a pigeon recently at 512yds, the 140gr 6,5 cal amax expanded like a dream,have done it with 168gr amax in my 308, amax do expand on bigger stuff too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akeld Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 The guys who run Northumbria are a sensible bunch, very friendly and also generally very efficient. They certainly are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave thorniley Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 nice1 big al im moving to Northumbria good luck with your shooting.dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave thorniley Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 nice 1 big al Northumbria police seem a sensible bunch unlike some not to mention names ive been shooting fox and vermin for nearly 40 years and shot all vermin with 22.250 223rem for years then a number of years ago my firearms dept tell me they don't like me shooting vermin with big calibre rifle,s eg 22.250 223 rem ?????????? that's what they were made for I said so now if I,m out all day and night I use my 17rem for both fox and vermin IS THIS MAKING ANY SENSE or I have to take 2 rifles out 1 to shoot rabbits and another 22.250 to shoot fox anyway good luck big al im still jealous dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave thorniley Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 thanks froggy will do, this situation is doing my head in dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 yes its a .223 i have used 50 grain v max out to 350 yards but feel the 75 grain amax or equivalent would be better when pushing it to 450 yards Yes,While velocity is an advantage-marginally for plausible bullets for the job- out to around 300yards maybe,thereafter BC has real advantages (or reduces handicaps!). This is especially useful for somewhat reduced wind drift-where errors are a given-no one can predict field effect of wind over say 500yards with great accuracy. That gets the bullet there-terminal performance then comes in-the consensus is that Amax do rather well as small varmint bullets,even if a 'target' design,and there are no high BC Vmax. One factor that needs a check-though it may well be that here the Amax's 'target' credentials pay off ,is accuracy-you have to hit the crow,and they present a rather small target. A .5 moa at 100y rifle is right on/beyond it's precision limits by 450 yards,even with a near perfect ballistic solution,and perfect shot. Any bullet that shoots worse than the .5 at 100,is even more of a liability. Happy is high BC,accurate,and effective....( 75g A max BC is .435,compared to Vmax 53 g at .290,and that about halves drift) so the heavier Amax often get close® to this ideal.Should be tried. Good shooting. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montey Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Are these match kings able to be posted as are Amax? Or are they the same as Vmax and have to be collected and signed for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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