Moly bullets?

[craigyboy]

I seen some moly coated berger bullets for the .204 and was just wondering what is the advantage of moly bullets? I dont know much about them, are they worth a try?

[Redfox]

A good number of disadvantages you dont want, your rifle already shoots very well be happy and dont F%&^k it up with moly bullets.

Redfox

Wait for the loads of replies "ive been doing it for years etc"

[Ronin]

Moly,,,,,,

 

 

only use it in one rifle, the 22-250AI, I wouldn't use it in my 6.5x284 or 25-06 as I see no benefit from its use.

 

The 22-250AI shoots 75g A-Max moly so well I just keep using them despite the percieved problems. Too big a pro / con debate for me to go intto in a short space.

 

No doubt someone with more time will expand

[Guest Smeagle]

I put up a post on it on PFS a while ago I will see if I can find it, it really is a complex subject but the factory coated stuff is okay, the problems mostly associated with it come from dry moly and self application.

[Guest Smeagle]

Here it is,

 

I was asked about Moly on another thread.

 

Okay what I know and don't know on this stuff is pretty much the same as everyone else, the jury is still well out on it. Moly is a chemical compound (MO) which is found naturally in the body and the ground, it is a kind of silicon often used to bond fertiliser, it is also used in explosives to bond them.

 

There are two basic types wet and dry, this is by the application, most home-loaders will be dealing with the dry form or powder. There are any number of myths surrounding it and it appears to be the next great piece of voodoo.

 

The dry form is easier to apply as it is just put in a tumbler with the projectiles, the wet requires a little specialist handling, however there are now wet oils on the market which reduce the old dry problems and are easier to use.

 

Lets try and get at the truth.

 

What is it and what does it do, well it's a lubricant, actually the finest lubricant that we have yet discovered. It is a silicon, by coating a projectile in it, it is claimed a number of things, firstly that you will reduce friction in both barrel and air, also as it coats the inside of the barrel you will prevent copper fouling. This in turn will result in increased and more consistent accuracy.

 

The truth as I know it is this, as you reduce the friction in the barrel you actually reduce the pressure behind it and thus the velocity, in fact it is counter productive, also you need air pressure to stabilise the projectile in flight. Reduction of fouling, well yes, that's because you are getting moly caking instead, basically the moly sets itself in rings along the barrel. Copper is easy to remove with solvent and a brush. Moly is a real stripey deckchair, it has to be scrubbed out, you can try Hoppes, some have said detergent and in the worst cases you actually need to use an abrasive. Ouch.

 

As it sets in rings you need to scrub the barrel in short sharp strokes, this cannot be good.

 

But it can be done, especially with wet or factory coated moly rounds, dry home loads you are in for a hard time. There is also the myth that with moly you don't have to clean your rifle, this is absolute rubbish of the worst kind. Think about it it's a silicon and thus holds water and moisture. Which acts with the acids in the propellant and creates corrosion.

 

Also base moly itself is an extreme corrosive, it kills barrels. This is especially true of dry moly as it is impossible to chemically add an inhibitor, this prevents or at least reduces corrosion. Factory ammo with moly coats are coated in wet moly which has an inhibitor in the compound, but it is very difficult to apply wet moly at home. There are now wet weapons moly oil which is easier to apply and as this has an inhibitor in it it should be used instead of moly powder.

 

The next myth is that Moly is dangerous. Moly is not dangerous in it's normal state, it is a naturally occurring substance as said, it will not render meat poisonous, as has been suggested in the past, however in it's powdered state it can be a irritant and it is not recommended that you breath it in. In it's powdered state the particles are incredibly small and once they hit the lungs they cause irritation, prolonged exposure and the lungs get more and more irritated, this leads to infection and can lead to lung cancer. Which is not good. Wear a mask if applying it.

 

So what are the conclusions, well most of the problems, like most problems come from incorrect usage and misunderstanding. Wet moly and wet moly oil which is correctly formulated for firearms use is fine. It has an inhibitor which prevents corrosion and has a reduction in build up which can be cleaned out. Dry moly which home-loaders have been using is a nightmare. It should in my opinion never be used. Indeed you will not find it on any high level competition range today.

 

Are there any advantages, for us as hunters I do not believe so. However what it does do is turn poor rifles into acceptable rifles, indeed the better the rifle the higher the tolerances and the more the problems are magnified, poorer quality rifles have slacker tolerances and are thus able to cope with it. Factory moly ammo is fine as it is correctly applied and formulated, home loaded dry moly, well I wouldn't touch it.

[ejg223]

Hi, i always thought Moly bullets are coated with

MoS2, Molybdenum Disulfide. Which would be

the stuff they put in oily sprays, greases and car

oils to help lubricate. Or as high temp lubricator.

That would have sulfur in it and not silicon.

Maybe someone here knows for sure what is used

on zee bullits.

If MoS2, then it's a mineral and feels a bit like

graphite, these as far as i know glide very well

in one of their cristal directions and are hard in the other

something like that anyway. For that reason many do

not regard them as the best lubricant.

(Great for the tractor)

 

edi

ps. smeagle

Just rememberd, Molybdenum disilicide (MoSi2) is

used in high temp heating coils that we also use at work.

This is a all metal. MO as metal + Silicon as metal

hard and brittle as hell.

[Guest 308Panther]

Molybdenum Disulfide.....

Correct,this is the stuff used on bullets....and it isnt a good practice to use them.

What happens is once the stuff gets into the metal it also holds moisture....

then it starts to degrade the metal....Your choice to use them...I wont.

 

308Panther

[Redfox]

Smeagle and Panther on the right track. It is MoS2 molybdenum disulphide.

It does form uneven ridges in the barrel ( whether wet or dry applied ) and is nearly impossible to shift using conventional methods. Abrasives such as JB compound will remove most of it but it is a long and damaging process. The residue formed when the Moly is heated by the propellant combustion, forms not only a hygroscopic ( water attracting and retaining) residue but this reacts with the water to form sulphuric acid ( really nice in your shiny expensive barrel), the use of oil such as Kroil helps to prevent the rusting/ damage , even on stainlees by the way, but of course cocks up your first 2-3 shots until the oil is cleared.

There are no significant advantages to using moly, thats why it has vanished off the benchrest scene rapidly.

There is one way it worked fairly reasonably (still the rusting etc disadvantges though) and that was to top off the powder load with a couple of grains of moly powder in the case, results were more predictable with that method.

Some bullet makers have invested a lot of money in making moly bullets, so they are not admitting anything at the moment and are still bulling up their products, but demand is tailing off all the time and when stocks are gone they will not be pushing them then!

There are better materials to use in this way and without the drawbacks but not readily available yet.

 

As for not poisoning the meat, any animal shot in the UK and put into the meat chain is not allowed to have any "noxious or toxic material contamination added" so moly is out, and if caught supplying/ selling meat with moly contamination you would be liable to be prosecuted, particularly as it is not in any way essential to shooting the animal.( We are very PC inthe UK dont you know!!)

Redfox

[craigyboy]

Ill not be trying out those then!!!!!!!!Thanks lads.

[baldie]

If you couldn,t put noxious substances into the meat, via a bullet, no deer that were shot would go into the food chain. Bullets are made of lead. Powder will contain " noxious" substances, some of which, remain on the bullet, and are carried via it, into the carcass.There are also a lot of benchrest shooters still using moly,d bullets, have a look in the ammo boxes at diggle, and i,ll bet at least half are using it, and no, i dont, and have no axe to grind either way, and no, we dont sell them in the shop either.It can do a lot of bad things supposedly, and it can also get you that few extra grains of powder in a case, to do what you wish.

[Andrew]

I don't use moly bullets myself, but I have a good friend that has invested large sums of money in shooting Palma style matches and has been into experimenting with moly bullets for years at both the bench, and in matches. He recently told me that serious match shooters here -the 600 yard variety- have pretty much abandoned moly coated bullets as being of no practical value. The weapons required the same degree of cleaning and had no practical improvement in accuracy. This is in the for-what-it's-worth department, of course.

 

Frankly, why you'd want to use them (especially in a deer rifle) is beyond me. ~Andrew

[Guest Smeagle]

Yeah the consensus of opinion is that they have done there day, there is no value in them and many draw backs.

[Redfox]

To answer Baldies query, the lead and copper are in solid form and at the moment are accepted as being essential to the shooting of the animal ( maybe not for much longer with the availability of copper bullets that expand and kill), the moly is in powder form and readily shed from the bullet into the meat on impact and impossible to detect with a metal detector unlike bullet fragments and of course not essential to the kill.

I fail to understand why anyone still uses moly in benchrest or any form of target shooting, when the negatives outweigh any positives in using Moly, there are if you want to try them, at least two alternatives which do not have the drawbacks associated with moly and give less friction, moly is old technology now.

Yes I have tried it in the past, both bought and self coated bullets and came to the same conclusion as Andrews quoted experiences, it gave no real improvement, better to spend a little more time and money on preparation of rifle and ammo.

 

Redfox

[baldie]

We are overlooking on very important fact about moly.Its main use today, is to take a bullet to a velocity, not available, with a naked bullet, within, safe pressure limits....this is where its still used in target shooting, usually to achieve the magical 3000 fps, that most bullets seem to buck the wind at. I,ve no axe to grind, i,ve never used it, but i know some world class shots who still do.