chris101 Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hi, I've just started the process of reloading for my .17 Hornet, using once fired Hornady brass. Seem to be having huge problems with the state of the primer pockets, the base of each pocket around the flash hole is slightly bulged back towards the case head, meaning that I'm getting a depth of anything from 2.59mm to 2.78mm - my CCI small rifle primers are 3.05mm, so stand far too proud. The saami specs for the pocket are 2.99mm - 3.09mm I believe. I've read that the pockets can be very slightly shallow, but this is more than slight! I have tried a K&M pocket uniformer, but when using the tool to bring the pocket to standard spec I'm left with so little brass at the web that I've probably gone beyond the safe limit, so am reluctant to use those cases now. The decapping pin is more than free enough to slide through the flash hole without binding, and the expander ball is set right back so isn't impacting on the flash hole either. Anyone experienced a similar issue with this calibre? Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzi Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I used fiocchi primers in mine as they are slightly shallower, enough so i could avoid uniforming the pockets on my 17 Hornet brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetop Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hatzi - what load you currently running ? And how do you find those fiocchi primers ? Many thanks Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 hmm, I think I have another much more serious problem so wont bother to attempt to reload for this rifle just yet, check out the crack on the bolt face, that's after around 120 rounds of Hornady factory V-max. Have reported it to Edgar Bros (no response) so will speak to the shop tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 oh please don't say this i just got tired of hmr ammo and bought a 17 hornet today.cz or savage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Had several people report the same brass problem in the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 is the bolt repairable ? this is not good news.the cz looks a cracking rifle (no pun intended)had hoped my hmr/silly brass problems were in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Don't know if the CZ bolt can be repaired, I'm guessing that it can be replaced - which would be my preference, and then the headspace reset, which will be a gunsmithing job. The ring around the firing pin almost looks like its been sleeved, but it is about the size of a primer cap, however the crack isn't too clever and I dare not use it now. I did see the mark previously but assumed it was a tooling mark, that was until I took the close up pics. Gutted to be honest, the rifle is extremely accurate (usually sub-1/2" group at 100 yards if its not too windy). I zero at 160 yards and its 3/4" high at 100, and 1" low at 200, ideal for long range rabbits, plus its pretty quiet with a Hardy Gen IV moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 keep us posted on edgar bros customer service,i would expect a new rifle imo as that is not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Will do, I've usually had good service from the shop (Countryman of Derby) so hopefully they'll get things moving with Edgar Bros. For the first time ever I actually filled in the online warranty 'card' for this rifle, glad I did. Its kind of put me off the CZ527 a little (having put 10's of thousands of rounds through my other rifles and never seen this before), however I still like the idea of a long range rabbit gun that doesn't make as much noise as my 223 or 22-250. If Tikka made a T3 in this calibre I'd buy it in a shot. The CZ is functional, looks pretty and all that, handles well and is lightweight, but the bolt is rough to operate, the trigger is gritty, feeding isn't too slick, actually feeding is quite poor for a modern rifle - all things that could be sorted once its out of warranty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 yeh had a couple from countryman good shop,i noticed the rough bolt today but the bolt was dry so hoped a bit of lube would sought it.the trigger is nothing special but better than the cz rim fire trigger imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Spoke to the shop, and they've now seen the pics. In their eyes the ring around the firing pin hole appears to be caused by gas erosion from around the primer, it looked for a moment as though I was to be accused of some bad home loading technique, thus causing the damage myself. I told them of my problems trying to fit primers to the once fired cases, and that I'd only just bought the shell holder (which isn't included in the Hornady die sets) at the weekend just gone, so haven't had the chance to reload yet. Hopefully they, or Edgars, wont go down the blame game route, and will stand by their 'no quibble' guarantee' so its back to the shop ASAP. They were unsure as to what the crack was in the bolt face, somewhat sceptical having never seen a bolt face crack - which is fair enough I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 lets hope things move fast and smooth ,keep us posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pork chop Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 i had a 17 fireball from the countryman years back pritty sure edgars were the Remington importer too .rifle had to go back and had no bother getting it swapped.also cz bolts are known to be rough you only have too look at your pics to see why,doesn't stop them being accurate rifles though.hope you get sorted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 The ring on the bolt face is gas cutting and it was done at the proof house. The proof rounds are so fierce the primers just blow and cause that. It has been a standard complaint from custom gun builders for a long long time. We produce beautiful guns and they get abused in an archaic test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visiter1 Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hi, I've just started the process of reloading for my .17 Hornet, using once fired Hornady brass. Seem to be having huge problems with the state of the primer pockets, the base of each pocket around the flash hole is slightly bulged back towards the case head, meaning that I'm getting a depth of anything from 2.59mm to 2.78mm - my CCI small rifle primers are 3.05mm, so stand far too proud. The saami specs for the pocket are 2.99mm - 3.09mm I believe. I've read that the pockets can be very slightly shallow, but this is more than slight! I have tried a K&M pocket uniformer, but when using the tool to bring the pocket to standard spec I'm left with so little brass at the web that I've probably gone beyond the safe limit, so am reluctant to use those cases now. The decapping pin is more than free enough to slide through the flash hole without binding, and the expander ball is set right back so isn't impacting on the flash hole either. Anyone experienced a similar issue with this calibre? Cheers, Chris hi Mate some batches off 17 hornandy have awful primer pockets i use 22 hornet brass necked down as its much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 The ring on the bolt face is gas cutting and it was done at the proof house. The proof rounds are so fierce the primers just blow and cause that. It has been a standard complaint from custom gun builders for a long long time. We produce beautiful guns and they get abused in an archaic test. Thanks Dave, that's somewhat re-assuring, in a strange way, I was beginning to think that it had been in the hands of another owner before I took possession. The shop took a look at another CZ .17 bolt, that didn't exhibit any gas cutting. How many rounds are usually fired for proof tests, per rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatzi Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I used H4198 with 25hr Vmax if I remember rightly, it was a couple of years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Thanks Dave, that's somewhat re-assuring, in a strange way, I was beginning to think that it had been in the hands of another owner before I took possession. The shop took a look at another CZ .17 bolt, that didn't exhibit any gas cutting. How many rounds are usually fired for proof tests, per rifle? 2 usually. It does,t happen every time, but i regularly get guns back [ from London anyway ] that show marks like that. Sometimes they are just burns, sometimes its actually cut the bolt face. It look terrible....it actually means nothing. The bolt head is generally at least 1/2" thick. Rifles are supposed to be returned cleaned. never had one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 i can see why you get frustrated with the proof house dave i'll be very miffed if a factory rifle has that but if you have spent good money on a custom or in your case time and care/pride i'd be hopping mad to put it politley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyboy Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yesterday, I purchased a new CSZ 527 Lux Varmint in .17 Hornet calibre. I intend to reload the ammunition, and hope that I don't get the problems with primer seating as I have read on here. The biggest problem I am coming across is finding 20gr Vmax bullets to reload. York Guns have them, but quoted £25 for delivery as they come under the 'dangerous goods' act. Strange really, because I have purchased licensed bullets from Henry Krank (via my RFD) and have only paid £4.00 postage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 when i first had a 17 hornet i uniformed all the primer pockets they were so tight i broke the cutter off my k&m uniformer.never had pockets like it b4 or since.wont bother this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris101 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 My rifle goes back to the Countryman tomorrow, Edgars will sort it out under warranty and according to the shop will probably replace the bolt. Edgars also got a response for Hornady regarding the ammunition, but only to say that it isn't suitable for reloading due to tapered primer pockets and a crimp, no admission of faulty ammunition. Martyn also commented that they do sell a lot of new .17 brass for reloading. I started taking a very close look at my once fired cases, something like 1 in 4 is exhibiting a very slight, but noticeable dark discoloration around the primers, so looks like they might have been leaking gas. Most are very slightly cratered. I also noticed that most cases bulge after firing, as is normal, but more than I'd expect, probably not surprising considering how thin the brass is. At 5.5mm up from the rim of the case I can just about see but definitely feel a blown area, its not quite a donut ring, its fairly consistent at 5.60mm OD (compared to 5.43mm OD for an unfired case measured at the same point), after this raised section (towards the rim) it drops down in OD slightly before continuing with the taper to the rim. Would be interested to see if other CZ .17 owners have similarly expanded cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liongeorge Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have stumbled on this thread whilst researching reloading data as I have a .17 CZ Hornet that I have been struggling to get decent accuracy out of my 25gr home loads. I thought I would check on my bolt face as I remember that it had a similar ring to Chris on the bolt face from new and thought nothing of it as it was new just thought it was slightly poor machining and i wanted to get on with new gun so turned a blind eye. Anyway thought I would double check after this thread and it is worse than I thought and worse than Chris's. As said there was a bit of a ring from new. When load developing I had a some primers blow by when i was using lilgun. Have been using H4198 since with no problems. Have shot in the region of 1000 rounds. Is this likely to keep on getting worse or does it only occur when there is primer leakage ie black ring round primer. ? back to the original thread , I have not had any problems with my primer pockets being shallow etc I am using CIC magnum small rifle primers No.450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liongeorge Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Just had another look at Chris's pictures and would say mine came like that from new, must have been the proof house as Dave said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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