Ideas - a bolt action 6.5x47 that points like an AR?

[brown dog]

Right - I'm thinking Eliseo chassis lightened a bit (I know where there is one) AR15 lightweight butt-stock, Remmy action and medium profile barrel about 16 inches long in 6.5x47 - I'm running my 6.5x47 with an 18 inch barrel at 2875fps.

 

Anybody fancy donating an old Remmy action? I'll throw in the barrel and smithing. Maybe we could get other bits - like trigger, rings, butt etc and build a UKV rifle. Just think of the arguments over the colour............

 

Just been google-fuing eliseo. Vince, what a bloomin good idea!

[Scotch_egg]

Just been google-fuing eliseo. Vince, what a bloomin good idea!

http://shootingshed.co.uk/oscom/product_info.php?products_id=155

 

Job done.

[John MH]

Get a Tubb 2000 and put a short barrel on it.

[Laurie]

Here's a video of Gary Eliseo using his 308 RTM (Remy tactical Magazine) in a McQueens cycle followed by the Mad Minute. You can see how little ditsurbance the tubegun form produces even in 308.

 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=eliseo+mad+minute&submit=Search

[bradders]

http://shootingshed.co.uk/oscom/product_info.php?products_id=155

 

Job done.

 

Not very "Carbiney" though

[bradders]

http://shootingshed.co.uk/oscom/product_info.php?products_id=155

 

Job done.

 

Not very "Carbiney" though

 

Here's a video of Gary Eliseo using his 308 RTM (Remy tactical Magazine) in a McQueens cycle followed by the Mad Minute. You can see how little ditsurbance the tubegun form produces even in 308.

 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/?s=eliseo+mad+minute&submit=Search

When shooting prone off a bipod, anything can "handle like an AR "Carbean"

 

Next......

[Laurie]

 

When shooting prone off a bipod, anything can "handle like an AR "Carbean"

 

Next......

 

 

That's not the point Mark. Since we can't have semi-auto ARs, you simply don't get a 'true AR' in 6.5X47L, 260, 308 etc that works really well in straight-pull form, so the issue is what is the best stock form for a 'turnbolt'.

 

I'd still reckon on the T2K as the best form for what Brown Dog has in mind, but an Eliseo or Shooting Shed style tubegun form will deliver too. You may say that anything on a bipod handles like an AR, effectively with any cartridge. Really? I don't think so. I shoot a single-shot Eliseo in F in .284 with 180s at over 2,800 and the recoil handling is superb. FWIW, I don't actually think the tubegun is ideal for this form of prone shooting unless a lot of changes are made to what was essentially a design produced for what we call TR and the Americans call 'sling shooting'. Mik Mak at Dolphin has done a great job in rebuilding the buttstock assembly on mine to give a longer pull and to make it heavier .... and more, but I've still not got it right.

 

Where I think the tubegun might not meet BD's requirements (despite The Gun Pimp's enthususiasm for the genre) is weight. The tubegun stock is pretty heavy. It's be well balanced though with a say 16-inch barrel. The main problem I have with my 284 F-Open version is 30 inches of fat barrel stuck out front.

 

Give us our semi-autos back and I'd be with you 100% on an AR. I'd love to have a 6.5 Creedmoor AR gas-gun. (Or even a .30-06 M1 Garand.)

[ds1]

Had a carbon barrel on an AR10 (RND 800) .....my advice....don`t.

 

Compact light, well balance rifle........DTA with 16 or 18 inch barrel or Tubb T2K / Mc Millan ALIAS (cs5) in short configuration......watch the vids of Tubb shooting his and how position is maintained......I am very tempted to sell my DTA or AI for a Tubb T2K.

 

I think Tubb has already been down that route developing the T2K when he wanted an SR25 in a bolt gun.......you just need a shorter barrel.

[John MH]

 

Mik Mak at Dolphin has done a great job in rebuilding the buttstock assembly on mine to give a longer pull and to make it heavier .... and more, but I've still not got it right.

 

 

Should have got a T2k.

[Offroad Gary]

Blaser sporting have just announced release of the r8 in 6.5x47 lapua, all barrel profiles!

[brown dog]

? I remember my DTA as being a heavy piece of kit - comparable to an AW, just shorter; am I mis-remembering? The magazines write them off for me.

 

T2K etc....are they actually available, or are we specifying rocking horse poo with that idea?

 

R8 in 6.5x47? Can we just leave Blasers out of this? (Are they sponsoring you Gary? You should get in touch with them if they're not )

[Zaitsev]

There's this thread that might ring the changes a bit?

 

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5514-bolt-action-rifles/13841806-7x47-lapua-on-accuracy-international-at-a-k-a-stumpy

 

Reason for reference is that the performance looks good from your desired barrel length. Certainly looks to have the edge on 6.5 in comparable length barrel.

 

Enjoy.

 

G

[bradders]

There's this thread that might ring the changes a bit?

 

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5514-bolt-action-rifles/13841806-7x47-lapua-on-accuracy-international-at-a-k-a-stumpy

 

Reason for reference is that the performance looks good from your desired barrel length. Certainly looks to have the edge on 6.5 in comparable length barrel.

 

Enjoy.

 

G

And how much does that weigh?

[John MH]

T2ks come up for sale occasionally and it might still be possible to get a McMillan Alias out of the States.

[bradders]

T2ks come up for sale occasionally and it might still be possible to get a McMillan Alias out of the States.

Left handed?

[John MH]

No, they probably are Rocking Horse Poo.

[Offroad Gary]

? I remember my DTA as being a heavy piece of kit - comparable to an AW, just shorter; am I mis-remembering? The magazines write them off for me.

 

T2K etc....are they actually available, or are we specifying rocking horse poo with that idea?

 

R8 in 6.5x47? Can we just leave Blasers out of this? (Are they sponsoring you Gary? You should get in touch with them if they're not )

Ok Matt, i'll take that on board, but just think about the accuracy and resale value! R8 success, thumbhole grip, straight pull, i think i just might...

[brown dog]

There's this thread that might ring the changes a bit?

 

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5514-bolt-action-rifles/13841806-7x47-lapua-on-accuracy-international-at-a-k-a-stumpy

 

Reason for reference is that the performance looks good from your desired barrel length. Certainly looks to have the edge on 6.5 in comparable length barrel.

 

Enjoy.

 

G

 

Damn, that was interesting - esp the vid! 7x47 out of a 16" eh?!

[Laurie]

I can see why Jason Baney has gone down the 7X47L route in a tactical rifle, same issues in a short action / set magazine length that have people endlessly discussing 6.5X47L v 260 Rem v 6.5 Creedmoor. The slightly shorter '47 case allows a tenth of an inch longer bullet to be used within a say 2.9" COAL envelope without bullets ending up seated half way down the case body, and the '47L case comes from a 63,000 psi factory allowed pressure cartridge with a reputation for robustness allied tro the small primer / 'mucho meat' case-head.

 

So far, so good. But, the 7mm-08 offers nearly 15% greater powder capacity and any gunsmith in the country has a reamer, often several, with match versions available. If you've got to run at the '47's 63,091 psi limit (more like 65,000 psi plus a bit more I suspect with many 6.5X47L owners), well you simply buy Lapua .308 Win Palma brass and run it through a 7mm-08 die and hey presto you've got small primer, ultra tough 7mm-08 brass, It's cheaper than 6.5X47L brass that you'd buy to neck up to 7mm too. The Australians and New Zealanders have been making small primer 7mm-08 and 260 Rem ammo ever since Lapua introduced the .308 Palma design.

 

That's not to forget though that the small primer brass has downsides whatever it comes as - 6BR, 6.5X47L, or 308 Win in that many rifles can't get anywhere near its allowable pressures without blanking primers. Jason Baney had to have a bolt-bushing job done on his AI to make the cartridge fit for purpose. And it's a wildcat, so you wait an age for a custom reamer to be provided. Dies won't be a great issue here certainly as 6.5X47L bushing dies can be used, maybe needing a simple boring out job at the shoulder / neck junction, likewise (maybe) a little work on a 6.5X47L seater die allied to a change of seating stem to 7mm.

 

Jason does say too in his very detailed write-up on the project in the Accurate Shooter Daily Bulletin that ..... "The recoil and muzzle blast increased dramatically from 32″ down to 16.1″. I bet they did, and that's obviously going to be an issue with any cartridge whose powder charge is in the 38-45gn range. But, I gather 16-inch barrel 308s aren't uncommon in this game, so when the going gets tough, the tough get going I suppose.

 

You do have to wonder about the quoted MVs though, and/or the pressures needed to get them. Getting 2,777 fps from the 180gn Hybrid from a 32-inch barrel and considerably above 2,500 fps from 16 inch simply take a lot of doing, not to say peak pressures. As one comment on Accurate Shooter puts it, the correspondent is running a 284 with 180gn Bergers at not very much over 2,800 fps in a 31-inch barrel in a very much bigger cartridge (that also has a high SAAMI allowable pressure, 700 psi above that of the '47L even) so running the relative pipsqueak 7X47 at 2,777 fps despite a full 10gn less powder is quite an achievement (or who knows, it may not be just quite an achievement rather an extremely unwise one!)

 

It may turn out that the 7mm-6.5X47L is one of these combinations made in heaven. But then everybody said exactly that too about the 6-6.5X47L variant shortly after the parent was introduced .... and not that many are around these days as the promise wasn't as easily fulfilled as people expected, or maybe wasn't anywhere near fulfilled at all. Before I spent serious money on this, I'd like to see if the 7mm version takes the US tactical scene by storm and wipes out the 6.5s. If it offers real benefits over the three mid-size 6.5s it'll do just that in a couple of seasons. Still, a nice little wildcat for repeating rifles, and a neat project - I hope it does do well.

[walkabout]

Here is my latest 6.5x47

18" Barrel, get 2710 fps with a 123gn Lapua bullet.

XLR Carbon Stock, total weight is 14 lbs, with a full mag, bipod, Moderator.

It has a Heavy/Medium Palma barrel on it so could be made lighter with a smaller profile barrel.

Feels like an AR in terms of ergonomics...apart from the bipod!

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

[baldie]

I,m with you Laurie, unless that test was at 5000 ft , I don't understand those velocity figures.

[ds1]

Given that BD has already done the DTA and Blaser rifles o the point of establishing an horizontal learning curve thinking out of the box a bit, why not an AR 15 in 6mm Turbo with a lever or trigger release? SGC are doing the lever release on an AR15 platform.

 

It would seem to offer advantages of self extraction, so other than 223 cals become an option and LH or RH operation is a non issue.

 

If an AR15 is the goal.......it would seem to be the closest offering to a non castrated version.

[gbal]

Was it Jim Carmichael who suggested that the greatest backward step in wildcat ballistics was the availability of affordable,reliable chronographs?

These virtually overnight,reduced velocities by an average of 125 fps,and in some cases much more.

 

I wonder,Laurie and Dave,whether history might repeat,folllowing the introduction of affordable,reliable pressure indicators? (before the introduction of affordable,reliable prosthetic devices)!

 

gbal

[The Gun Pimp]

We've had some great discussions regarding the AR bolt-gun but let's keep weight at the forefront.

 

It is possible to build an accurate rifle weighing 10.5lbs all-up - there are thousands of 6PPC Light Varmint rifles out there (using barrels that weigh 5lbs!).

 

We can all build 14lb lumps like 'walkabouts' but we want a rifle weighing less than 10lbs!

[Offroad Gary]

Whats the typical weight of a "lightweight" chassis system?

 

I broke my stiller sentinel down yesterday to weight the bits and was surprised where the weight was!