.22 barrel lenth

[benny243]

Sorry if this has been done before but I was wondering what everyones thoughts are as regards short barrel .22s.

im in the market to buy a new barrel and was looking at s.y.s.s website and noticed they do a 12.5" barrel, this sounds ideal for rabbit shooting from the quad and vehicle window however im a bit worried it may lose out on velocity/accuracy.

I have previously owned a 16" which shot really well but after seeing how short the 12.5 was it got me thinking it could be ideal, I've done some research online but opinions seem to differ and as ive had some great advice on here before I thought id ask you lovely lot

many thanks

benny

[tackb]

^{my finnfire is 12" , just about perfect for a 22}

[benny243]

Cheers tackb its always a bit worrying changing to something totally different, is the accuracy as good?

[AckImp]

I used a 12.5" in competition for a long time and can promise you that you won't loose out going to that length. The 12.5" VQ Carbon Fibre barrels are really accurate.

[gbal]

Benny,there have been some tests,not many with several rifles at each barrel length,a few using different ammo brands,and a few cutting back the barrel on the same rifle.....ideally we'd get all three variables ,but that's kind of expensive testing!..Here's some sample data though:

Bob MIlek-respected US gun wrriter in Guns and ammo vol9 no 4 "Barrrel lengthV Velocity",with a samle of rifles: barrel length and fps:

14 1105

13 1106

12 1106

11 1089

10 1114

9 1077

8 1063

 

A test with 3 different Marlin l/as 24/1263 20/1254 16/1251

 

Test with 6 different ammos,same model rifle

 

24 inch 1283 1231 1235 1144 1103 Hyper 1463

13 " 1260 1229 1253 1132 1058 1444 (averaged 99% of 24 inch velocity in the 13inch)

 

 

OK,apart from the very occasional blip-perhaps a sampling error-they were only 10 shot strings at best,it's clear there is probably an optimum length for 22rf.

Shortening will reduce fps,but not much usually.

Anecdotally,no field performance differences on small varmints/rabbits at 22rf distances. It's enough.Posts here should confirm,always reassuring.

 

(this is also confirmed by eg sub sonics reduced fps,and 22 short maybe.Very short pistol fps is down much more,but that's not an issue here-the 22rf clearly needs some barrel length to get reasonably close to it's potential).Accuracy should not be compromised.

 

Short barrels are a bit louder-but that's without mod (US remember).

 

I can't see much that would argue against a short barrel of UK legal length,of course,and as you note,the handling tradeoffs might be quite important. Enjoy it!

 

gbal

[dennisgrm]

Optimum performance is gained at around 20-26" for a .22lr cartridge. Obviously there are some variations with chamber and bore groove specs. The bullet reaches optimum velocity around this length and anything longer in fact starts to slow the bullet down. Anything shorter and velocity/powder burn is compromised. That is not to say that the accuracy will be vastly effected but as a rule variations are greater at these extreme short lengths.

 

Good reply from gbal :-)

[Big Al]

Optimum performance is gained at around 20-26" for a .22lr cartridge.

 

Interesting, I would never have thought that. I have read many times that all powder from a .22 sub is burned in the first 14"of the barrel, can you tell me where you get your reference material from?

 

Any links etc would make interesting reading.

[benny243]

Thanks for the informative replies you really are a helpful bunch, ive been sat looking at a 12" ruler it really is short is there any pics on here of a 12" 22?

[gbal]

Gosh,this seems a complicated topic-here are some more data-some is from Benchrest Central. So the premium really is on accuracy-well,precision to be accurate! Data in my previuos post was for standard velocity rf- here is some for subs: 5shots for mv,5 at 55 for group all CCCI same box: !0/22s with diferent barrels:

 

22 inch 957 .25

20 964 .5

18.5 973 .5

16.12 986 .5

14 volq cf 1008 .2 volquertson carbon fibre

12.2 ss 1002 .25 custom stainless steel

 

 

16.5 hb 1015 most accurate a savage model 11

 

22 Benchrest Central post(s) best velocity from 24 inch in bolt actions,shorter for semi autos

 

(there is some speculation about slightly delayed blow back s/a interacting with pressure curve/barrrel length-seems pretty complex,and theory only......but it might be relevant to differences in what has been found to be 'ideal/best/fastest barrel length"......then there is the use of barrel tuners...to effectively "lengthen" barrel-at least get a node,I think.....that would untuned exist at a longer length(?)

It's not a 'straight line' graph,either-effects of an inch less barrel vary with barrel length...

 

10/22 decreasing barrel from 20 to 17.5 inches increased mv 30 fps (CCI SV 1080 to 1110 fps)

bolt actions -opposite,shortening reduced mv.

 

Hmmm....different from VLD/chambering/and all that jazz,but just as complex !

 

Remember though,most has relatively little direct implication for field/rabbit shooting. In practice,just practice!!

 

gbal

[JTO]

Just meassured the barrel on my BSA Supersport V. 570 mm.

[maximus otter]

"Optimum performance is gained at around 20-26" for a .22lr cartridge."

 

"...the .22 LR cartridge burns all of of its powder in about 16 inches."

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

 

A page of actual experimental results:

 

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

 

maximus otter

[DL.]

Optimum performance is gained at around 20-26" for a .22lr cartridge.

 

Not according to Dave on here who says that powder burn is achieved in 9".

http://ukvarminting.com/forums/topic/4700-barrel-length/?p=45928

[Andrew]

It depends on the ammunition. Most high velocity and hyper-velocity rounds are very much effected when shot from a short barrel.~Andrew

[maximus otter]

It depends on the ammunition. Most high velocity and hyper-velocity rounds are very much effected when shot from a short barrel.~Andrew

 

Not according to this chart:

 

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

 

Stingers, for example, only drop from 1510fps in a 10/22 length barrel (18") to 1476fps in a UK-legal 12" barrel.

 

Yellow Jackets only from 1407fps to 1334fps.

 

Etc.

 

maximus otter

[gbal]

What does the data 'say"?

Well,if we take the % fps of the 12 inch barrel against the 18 inch barrel :

 

YJ 95 Viper 97 Velocitor 98 Stinger 98

 

CPPN 96 GP 99 WSX 99

 

Small samples indeed,but statistically there isn't any difference,especially as the differences within are as great as the differences between,it looks like- subject to doing them all,and lots more not in the list-have fun-consistent however with max ott....

But this is from a 20 inch barrel startpoint,and not a representative sample of rifles,let alone action types.

 

There may well be other factors.

Andrew,has powder used changed significantly over the years?

We know target barrels used to be (still are?) quite long (25" maybe?) though that is also to gain sight radius advantages.Some muzzle choke wasn't unusual,though can't see it having much velocity effect.

Hyper velocity advantages do not sustain-the lighter bullets(yes,lower BC) give up any real advantage beyond 100y,which is getting a bit of a stretch anyhow for the cartridge (yes,me too-but only a few times...hit rate drops alarmingly in wind.)

 

As a small varmint consideration,on almost every criteria,if you wish to have a short(er) barrel,then go ahead-ballistic effects are not going to be of much consequence-there will be but little loss of ballistics and energy-if any,given the choice of ammo-and if it means getting off a decent shot rather than getting all tangled up,then it's a no brainer,if CQB with bunnies is your bag...... :-)

 

gbal

[benny243]

Thanks thats answered my question regards loss of performance so my minds at rest on that front,

How about accuracy? I was looking at the volquasten carbon barrel.

Never seen one (only on a website) and not spoken to anyone who owns one but for the price id expect them to be a good buy

[dannywayoflife]

The VQ carbon barrels are stunningly accurate buddy you won't regret buying one!

[Andrew]

 

Not according to this chart:

 

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html

 

Stingers, for example, only drop from 1510fps in a 10/22 length barrel (18") to 1476fps in a UK-legal 12" barrel.

 

Yellow Jackets only from 1407fps to 1334fps.

 

Etc.

 

maximus otter

 

That is a very small sampling of ammunition and contains none of the heavy weights such as the 40 grain CCI Velocitor and Aguila Interceptor. I remember CCI SGB ammo testing in the 1980's lost 18% of it's velocity when I switched from my 24" Brno to my 14" Contender. I have run Interceptor from 16" to 25" and found a 200 fps difference in velocities: just at 14%. Were those percentile losses in a CF cartridge, you would think them significant.

 

In rimfires, powder has less to do with performance than does priming. Most of Remington's HV ammo used the same primer and powder with simply a lighter bullet to achieve added velocity. I'm not certain about CCI.~Andrew

[benny243]

I should add I'll only be using subsonic ammo

[JTO]

Do competition match rifles have short barrels?

[gbal]

See Post *15

Competition match rifles do not have short barrels if they are using non telescopic sights.

They tend to be long,maybe circa 25 inches,older were longer-as this is a distinct accuracy advantage for aperture sights,as it increases the sight radius-essentially the distance between front and rear sight.

This advantage in aiming does not apply to competition rifles with scope sights as in Bench Rest.

Here shorter,heavier,more rigid barrels may be preferred,subject to any weight limits.

The issue though is not velocity primarily.

gbal

[MrCetrizine]

Do competition match rifles have short barrels?

My Feinwerkbau 2700 Free Rifle (ISSF/Olympic spec) has a 26" barrel.

 

It also has a non functional barrel extension to push the foresight further forward to aid aiming with lensless sights as gbal says.

[The_Dogge]

The VQ carbon barrels are stunningly accurate buddy you won't regret buying one!

I wouldn't count on it, I had a 16" version, it was mediocre at best accuracy wise and fussy on ammo. A sample of 1, but that's all you get when you buy one.

I wouldn't bother with another, if you want a light barrel just get a thin one, it's only a .22, it's not going to get hot.

[tackb]

I wouldn't count on it, I had a 16" version, it was mediocre at best accuracy wise and fussy on ammo. A sample of 1, but that's all you get when you buy one.

I wouldn't bother with another, if you want a light barrel just get a thin one, it's only a .22, it's not going to get hot.

 

 

if you get one and it won't shoot I'd say take it back for replacement , my 16'' volquartson (carbon fibre wrapped) was a tack driver with eley or Winchester subs but mediocre with anything cci ?

[The_Dogge]

 

 

if you get one and it won't shoot I'd say take it back for replacement , my 16'' volquartson (carbon fibre wrapped) was a tack driver with eley or Winchester subs but mediocre with anything cci ?

mine is long gone.

That may have been part of my problem, the gun (a full custom Volquartsen built by SYSS) wouldn't feed Eley SSHP at all, I had always found it the most accurate of the .22 subs in other guns, but couldn't use it. Accuracy was acceptable with Winchester and to be fair I shot many rabbits with it and enjoyed using it, but if you are sensible with range that doesn't require a tack driver, which it wasn't.