Offroad Gary Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well, after a couple of years away from R93's i decided that i just had to have one in my armoury again, they are perfect for hunting. I tried factory and custom turnbolts as truck guns but nothing beats the speed, safety and useability of an r93 when jumping in and out of trucks or climbing fences in the dark. This little "boxed minty" popped up on guntrader and i snapped it up. Quick trip to dasherman for a chop to 20" and a thread job (very well done), bipod stud fitted by myself and some bullets made up with no load development (in this rifle, 70gn nosler, 40gn h4895). 3 shots to zero 1" high at 100m then out this morning for first light. New tool christened at 06.30 without the lamp turned on. Im glad i kept the cap! Still using my 6.5 turnbolts for bigger stuff though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Looks very nice but the perfect foxing rifle has a removable mag IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Looks very nice but the perfect foxing rifle has a removable mag IMO. May i ask Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well, after a couple of years away from R93's i decided that i just had to have one in my armoury again, they are perfect for hunting. I tried factory and custom turnbolts as truck guns but nothing beats the speed, safety and useability of an r93 when jumping in and out of trucks or climbing fences in the dark. This little "boxed minty" popped up on guntrader and i snapped it up. Quick trip to dasherman for a chop to 20" and a thread job (very well done), bipod stud fitted by myself and some bullets made up with no load development (in this rifle, 70gn nosler, 40gn h4895). 3 shots to zero 1" high at 100m then out this morning for first light. New tool christened at 06.30 without the lamp turned on. Im glad i kept the cap! Still using my 6.5 turnbolts for bigger stuff though He's a big boy!Congrats on the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 May i ask Why? When 'jumping in/out of trucks' etc,the safest rifle is the one which has no cartridges at all in it-they are in a separate detached magazine in your pocket,though the rifle can be quickly made operational. g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhunter Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Foxing out of a truck, you fellas have it far to easy... Nice outfit Gary, the fox looks to be in fine fettle (minus the 6mm hole). Is it a "big boy" or a heavily pregnant vixen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 When 'jumping in/out of trucks' etc,the safest rifle is the one which has no cartridges at all in it-they are in a separate detached magazine in your pocket,though the rifle can be quickly made operational. g The beauty of the blaser is it can remain loaded, uncocked and 100% safe. I find mag fed rifles with single stack mags often lead to laziness and complacency and lots of shooters rely on the safety and keep one up the spout rather than unloading, Unless using a double stack mag, or floorplate where the rounds can be pushed under the bolt. Also, when stalking foxes on foot its difficult to chamber a round quietly from a mag, which will spook the fox, the blaser can be cocked in silence. Perfick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brown dog Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click......etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Vixen, 7 with 1 shot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhunter Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Vixen, 7 with 1 shot! That's the kind of shot ratio I like! Had 5 foxes on a "nature reserve" Thursday night, three dogs and two vixens neither had sign of pregnancy. 9 off the same 45acre plot in a week. Hopefully every thing else should start to thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Gary,as a psychologist ,issues of 'fail safe systems' with human operators were of interest. You are quite right that some shooters could become sloppy about 'safety',and rely on the 'safety' catch.All the more reason to remove all cartridges from the rifle. I would be interested in what selection process/test prospective Blaser owners have to pass,so that they would not rely on their 'loaded" but 100% safe rifle condition.Perhaps error is impossible-it'll be a first. Whatever may be the merits of "German engineering' in this instance-and there may be differing assessments-the human component tends to be the weaker link,and prone to error-as in your examples. The only rifle that is immune from non intended/accidental/whatever you want to label it/ discharges is the one where the cartridges are not in contact with any part of the rifle. I am not saying this is mandatory in all contexts-the lonely hill stalker risks only himself,for example. atb g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 A rifle which still has rounds in is NOT 100% safe. When I have shot a fox out of the the truck, I remove the mag from the rifle and put it in my pocket and then go and retrieve it. With an R93 you have to either leave it with rounds in, take each one out individually or take the rifle with you. I don't find any of these acceptable but each to their own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggy Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 An R8 would seem to offer the best of both worlds. At the shooting show they had no R93s on display at all, which suggests that Blaser consider the R8 to be the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ Varminter Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click......etc I'm with you on that one noisy noisy noisy. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ Varminter Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 Foxing out of a truck, you fellas have it far to easy... Nice outfit Gary, the fox looks to be in fine fettle (minus the 6mm hole). Is it a "big boy" or a heavily pregnant vixen? A lot of,places we go near us you couldn't even get a vehicle huh, happy hunter? Lol CZV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matone Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 The beauty of the blaser is it can remain loaded, uncocked and 100% safe. I find mag fed rifles with single stack mags often lead to laziness and complacency and lots of shooters rely on the safety and keep one up the spout rather than unloading, Unless using a double stack mag, or floorplate where the rounds can be pushed under the bolt. Also, when stalking foxes on foot its difficult to chamber a round quietly from a mag, which will spook the fox, the blaser can be cocked in silence. Perfick! 100% safe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 100% safe ? Yes, a loaded but not cocked blaser is 100% safe. Trust me, i'm an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Yes, a loaded but not cocked blaser is 100% safe. Trust me, i'm an expert. I agree that the R93 safety is the best system I have seen as it de-cocks the "bolt" I would be happy with the system in my truck. However the R8 system, if your drop your mag when walking to collect your fallen quarry it's the trigger system and a £300 bill when your can't find it in the shite filled field. Or when the mag is left at home you can't single load and make do. Yes I have been there although with a ruger 10/22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Yes, a loaded but not cocked blaser is 100% safe. Trust me, i'm an expert. Gary,you cited examples-which I accept-of human failure with conventional safeties.A very clear one is forgetting to put a rifle safety catch back on,when it has been slipped off to take a shot,that wasn't taken. Is this not just as likely with the cocker/decocker system ? And would it not be also possible to think you had decocked ,but be wrong-ie it wasn't done properly,even if attempted-maybe less likely,but is it "impossible"? Not (m)any humans are immune from errors,especially in a state of heightened adrenaline etc. As noted,the new R8 seems to cater to those who think your "100%" is about as reliable as "it wasn't loaded".And yes,I know about the one in the chamber-that is covered by my criterion-"safe'' means no cartridge in the rifle. The trust needed,is that criterion is met. :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 The best feature of the r8 (imho) is the ability to lock the mag in place and turn it into a "restyled" r93. I like to keep my mags in my rifles when hunting, hence my other rifles use double stack mags capable of being loaded (and underloaded) through the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Scotch,Gary: do you think perhaps you are talking more about convenience than safety now. "I like to carry a loaded magazine in my rifle " and " the noise might spook a fox" are hardly 100% safety endorsements. Yes,you might drop the mag....or your pick-up keys,or your house keys,or your specs,or your teeth...but again,these are not safety points....though a rifle which cannot fire is actually pretty safe.... :-) Confidence and competence with your chosen system are probably critical.In 'reality',shooting accidents are pretty rare,and no one system is ....errr 'fool proof'/fail safe- and generally,excepting technical failure-it's human error,hard to design out,though some are more hard wired than others. g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I concur. Human error will always be the main factor in any ND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 What about the time when you think you put the safety on but didn't? The mechanical system of the safety may be safe but human error is just that - error. Yep, safety on, BANG. Oops( or much worse). Not for me I'm afraid. An unloaded rifle is a safe one, unload, detach magazine, a two second job including putting the unloaded round back in the magazine. Just as quick to reload, mag in, bolt forward, rifle loaded. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch_egg Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 What about the time when you think you put the safety on but didn't? The mechanical system of the safety may be safe but human error is just that - error. Yep, safety on, BANG. Oops( or much worse). Not for me I'm afraid. An unloaded rifle is a safe one, unload, detach magazine, a two second job including putting the unloaded round back in the magazine. Just as quick to reload, mag in, bolt forward, rifle loaded. Simples. And what about the time you forget to unload the round from the chamber but remove the mag. All boils down to human error. We are always the weak link. For me the blaser ability to de-cock a bolt is simple and less likely to cause human error as it keeps it keeps it simple and makes the rifle inoperable. I don't actually own a blaser though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJR Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Scotch, why would you do one deliberate action ie remove the magazine but not unload the round from the chamber and vice versa? Simply doesn't make sense to do one without the other. I think we can all agree the only absolutely safe rifle is one without a round in the chamber and no magazine fitted. I don't own a Blaser either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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