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Utterly Disgusted - Journalistic Cowards


brown dog

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Matt-it was not at all meant to be condescending-as I said elsewhere,we may well agree on much.

My point about your suggested points winning t shirt idea is that whatever might happen here and now in Luton is not an accurate snapshot of the future.

I didn't specify what was on the t shirt-deliberately(as I don't know peoples jobs,which might or not be 'provocative') but did say 'provocative'-which is what was relevant in Paris. Would you succeed with the bet if there were only law abiding citizens present-does that not rather beg the question-it's the others -then non law abiding-that are the problem.

But it's not a very good litmus test either way-let's leave it as a rather unrevealing 'gedanken 'experiment,or perhaps that what I said is over interpreted.

 

I am in no doubt whatsoever that there are some very nasty extremists about,who shoot people,as in Charlie Hebdo,and elsewhere.If others have seen this first hand,or worse,how does that experience give their views more weight?Let alone that the views might very well agree?

The nasties are a given,the issue is the strategic-and tactical- response to them.

I don't use words like 'peace' -what do you assume my ROEs for the 'erasers' are likely to be? 'Terminal' is included.

george

 

:)

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There is an excellent article on page 16 and 17 of today's Daily Mail - "Saturday Essay" by Max Hastings - that sums up the Paris atrocity and the culture of the extremists who committed it. I recommend reading it. He's hit the nail right on the head.

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I think they provide the answer themselves, "Boko Haram" they say, the biggest threat they see is Boko - secular education. We need to ensure all children have a proper non - religious education. We can start by ending government funding for schools with any religious ethos.

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There is an excellent article on page 16 and 17 of today's Daily Mail - "Saturday Essay" by Max Hastings - that sums up the P

aris atrocity and the culture of the extremists who committed it. I recommend reading it. He's hit the nail right on the head.

 

Thanks,Brillo,for referencing this.Just google it and read.

 

Max hits a whole bag of nails squarely on the head,with accurate diagnosis and prognosis and a minimum of rhetoric.

 

And he has a positive agenda for progress,leading to an eventual resolution of these issues.Super writing and thinking.(We win.)

 

(He has the advantage of coming from a shooting family.)

 

Please,everyone,read this-it's the best blueprint yet,and unlikely to be much bettered overall. Best of British.

 

gbal

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Shuggy, your tolerance is a fundamental misunderstanding of the fact that others don't necessarily share or respect your Western value set. The same failure to cognize that the 'tolerance' isn't a 2-way street with other cultures - and is in fact seen as weakness in the culture we're discussing.

 

To test your view of the reality of tolerance versus mine: I'll sponsor you £100 to RBL, or any other charity of your choosing, if you walk around Luton city centre for 4hrs on a Saturday afternoon wearing a t-shirt that clearly states what you do for a living.

 

You on? :)

Au contraire. All the Muslim colleagues that I have worked with have been tolerant, lovely people. There are many qualities to admire in mainstream Islam. Don't forget that we are talking about a minority of nutters here; deeply racist people that believe in the idea of Sharia law and the Caliphate.

 

Tolerant I may be, but I'm not stupid. My Persec should (I hope) not be up for discussion here.

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Tolerant I may be, but I'm not stupid.

 

How does that work together as a statement? :blink:

 

Perhaps if you would articulate why the idea would be stupid, I'd better understand your concept of tolerance?

Do you think it may not be safe to do that in Luton? Why not?

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I didn't know until I read Max Hastings article in the Mail that the French Policeman the extremists murdered was a Muslim. This demonstrates their barbaric agenda.

P.S. To take Shuggy's point one step further, my Step Grandson is married to a Muslim and she is horrified that so called members of her religion would carry out what they did.

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It rather goes back to the point that the peaceful majority are irrelevant.

 

Why would shuggy be too terrified to walk through Luton? - It's not because of the soft-cuddly-nice muslims he's met in his cosy middle-class bubble, it's fear of the nasty lethal intolerant minority who might kill him.

 

As long as UK keeps pretending the soft and cuddly muslim majority are controlling the agenda of the muslim head-hackers, we'll not move out of the danger we're in.

 

Worth listening to the way this lady articulates it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI74lOgfxk4

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I think extremists in all walks , religions , cults , beliefs , whatever your description , will always have a chance of slipping thro the net and actually doing something major or minor , that's not the main fault . I take us back to matts original post and how we ( society , not those tasked with a job or roll to confront this ) all shout and posture about how horrible it is but regularly as a society fail to stand in unity against these people ( read scum ) . We need to all stand firm but when one falters we need to pull them up not step down with them . I'm ashamed that institutions such as the BBC or the main stream papers have allowed themselves to be controlled by these tossers . Time we all stood proud , power of the pen ?? Best hammered in through some individuals spines I think

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Absolutely not: But I'm not making naive claims about 'tolerance'. ;):lol::)

Matt, you are well aware that I have done more than a bit in terms of the fight against extremism. However I have no trouble at all in reconciling this with my attitudes to mainstream Islam.

 

Can we just leave it at that?

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Presumably we were typing at the same time. I'd refer you to this:

 

It rather goes back to the point that the peaceful majority are irrelevant.

 

Why would shuggy be too terrified to walk through Luton? - It's not because of the soft-cuddly-nice muslims he's met in his cosy middle-class bubble, it's fear of the nasty lethal intolerant minority who might kill him.

 

As long as UK keeps pretending the soft and cuddly muslim majority are controlling the agenda of the muslim head-hackers, we'll not move out of the danger we're in.

 

Worth listening to the way this lady articulates it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI74lOgfxk4

 

I hope we'd at least agree on the end-point in Hasting's article:

 

"We must be unshakeable in our determination to root out extremism, especially in schools, but also in our commitment to tolerance wherever Muslims extend their tolerance to us and the way we do things."
(my emphasis)

 

The inference being; we must be ready to be intolerant where & when they are not tolerant.

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You have a kennel full of dogs and one every so often goes berserk and kills one of the others , how long do you leave it before you remove it?

Not long,if you are french police.That is an 'efficiency' issue-whether you try -or more likely how- is another issue that may endanger more of the good dogs.

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I don't see much evidence for a widespread belief that islamic -or any other-faith leaders claim that they are controlling jehadist extremes.On the contrary ,they express concern that they are not,perhaps cannot,and/or that such extremist are not mainstream faith. They seem concerned - even take some responsibility-though emphasise the mistaken ideologies of the extremists.I get no sense of complacency- such minorities have much to lose by being discredited,as well as genuine abhorence.

Whether some citizens in our society are a bit soft on 'human rights' -in this context- is a quite different point,and if they have influence (I take it that is the real vector of 'middle class'),then that may hamper intelligence work.Quite plausibly. Tree huggers hinder forrestry.

As I said,though-the evidence is not as stereotypically clear as some maintain- is Max Hastings on the side of 'Oh,it's ok-no need to do anything'? Not remotely-he's advocating another "Battle of Hastings" with high stakes,that we can and must win.Let's get the targets hardened and identified correctly.

 

Extreme Jehadists don't derive from the soft belly of society,but the harsh reality of their rejection of the basis of our society. It's new enough for us to have been less than ideally prepared for it. We can be now-Max covers that too,fairly explicitly.

gbal

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We all have to face the fact that as a country we are in the that which promotes growth and vigour.This down to mainly that we are to afraid upset anybody. From the scroates that on a regular basis rob and steal and batter oaps for there pension. The reason is not that they had a hard child hood and didn't have play station when they growing up. The reason is that there lazy idol scum who have no fear of going to prison, Because now if they are unlucky enough to be sent down they know they have a gym,Sky tv and X boxes to help them see the errors of there ways. To that hate preaching arse hole with the hook on his hand we kept in this country when he openly preached hate against us,Why because he had humane rights and freedom of speech.. Sorry he should of been shipped out the very first time he opened his mouth. Try standing in the middle of your local city and and shouting about carrying out terrorism attacks on islamic countries and see if you still have freedom of speech. You will branded a an evil racist. How are these people allowed line the streets and demonstrate and hate preach against our armed forces. when we are bringing our dead service men home through the same streets they are allowed to demonstrate on. Until the so called leaders of this once great country get of there fat arses and admit that there is a huge problem that needs sorting now, l am affraid GREAT britain as we know it is going to be a thing of the past.

Happy new year

Sean

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I find it somewhat interesting to hear the various viewpoints on those who, given time will destroy our society. I spent quite a few years working amongst/between christian terrorists and believe me they are not a patch on the current crop. There is a difference of mindset that a great many Westerners fail to understand. When did the IRA or the Loyalists ever drive a vehicle into a crowded street and self destruct? Do not judge them by our values but by their own otherwise you are doomed to failure. Remember too what Mau said about revolution; revolutionaries are little fish swimming in a mighty sea, the sea being the latent support for the cause. Without that sea, the little fish cannot survive.

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