Long drag Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi all, Looking to change my Rifle unsure what caliber to get. Main quarry Red Deer. I have set my mind on a Sauer 101. I have a 243 Scout great rifle, but caliber to lite for Red Deer. Any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 30-06,308,270....(280rem):as Red Deer hill cartridges they are excellent,and largely equivalent in that use. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srvet Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The obvious answer is 270 or 308, especially if you are going to use factory ammo. If you are going to handload then the 3006, 280 rem 7x64 and 7mm and 300 magnums. Personally I use the 7mm rem mag which is very effective indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tackb Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I shoot hill stuff with a 260 rem . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Long Drag, Dependant on if you are going to hand load or not, where are you going to be shooting etc. If totaly dependant on factory ammo then the basic 270, 308 or 30-06 seems to make sense? If you are only going to shoot in the UK i.e. no significant travel involved, then any cartridge you like as you can sort out factory or homeloads ahead of time and take them with you. The recurring assumption that you'd have to rush out locally to buy ammo if you were on a stalking trip seems to suggest piss poor planning to me? caveat, unless you were in a cull. Other nice cartridges IMHO are the 6.5x55 or the classic 7mm 'Mauser' . Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 There are so many more important factors than calibre choice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Gary, Totally agree, but just answering the OP's question. Personnaly being able to shoot is a good starting point! I've always used a 6.5x55 for deer, which has been sneered at by some, too small a cal, too light a bullet, but ho-hum, luckily for me deer do not read the internet Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 There are some other factors-(more important...?.such as?)-but having the right tool is ultimately top of the list (though as noted there are a fair few 'right tools",as well as some adequate only ones),and it was the OP question-which named three such.I'd say tool,rather than just cartridge-to cover weight and scope options,and able to use it well.) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalua Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've only ever been out at hinds, but I've used .243, 6.5x55, .270 and .308 over the last 11 years. Currently, my main stalking-rifle is .270, and the reserve is .308. Here's how I arrived at that: .243 was fine, but heavy-barrelled. 6.5x55 with factory fodder was slow and therefore loopy at the longer end of hill ranges. Could perhaps be solved if has a long enough barrel and hand-loading. .308 - no problem, but is a nice 1980's SAKO with a pretty stock .270 - stainless synthetic. It took me eight years to end up with the .270. I think there are good reasons for it being a classic hill chambering. As Gary says, though, there are plenty of things more important than choice of calibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Personnaly being able to shoot is a good starting point! ...luckily for me deer do not read the internet Terry Most useful post I've read in a long time. For the record I've shot large and small deer with the majority of calibres mentioned and all have worked based on the above principle. Good shot placement and a lack of internet education. To answer the op my present stalking rifle is a 30.06, i chose it for the flexability in bullet weights and velocity it offers. My personal choice is a 165grain gameking which seems to offer good terminal performance with less meat damage than speedier calibres. Some say it's a bit loopy but I think it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've seen this word 'loopy' used,and assumed it might be to do with trajectory......it is....here is the loopy 30-06 data: 30-06 165 Sierra Game King 200 zero drop at 300 is 8 inches compared to eg.... 7mm Rem mag 160g Nosler Part 6.6 inches How loopy is that 30-06 for a red deer hill stalking cartridge!! Or does 'loopy' have another meaning,perhaps referring to pragmatic ballistic ignorance? gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I used to call the 6.5x55 "the pitching wedge". That was because a few members of a DMG I did a bit with shot over heavy factory ammo. I wouldn't overlook it now as a useful factory chambering, especially if loaded right with 100 or 120/123 gn bullets. Don't pull the chicks like the 47L though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgek80 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I shoot all my red with 260 in fact all my deer with 260 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I used to call the 6.5x55 "the pitching wedge". That was because a few members of a DMG I did a bit with shot over heavy factory ammo. I wouldn't overlook it now as a useful factory chambering, especially if loaded right with 100 or 120/123 gn bullets. Don't pull the chicks like the 47L though! Gary,that would be the 'loopy' ones? To be fair,6.5x55 has been variously loaded,including lightly,in deference to older actions. But if size matters,it gives little away to the 47L,being of course '55'! As an Ackley,it rather spanks the 47. Maybe you don't know any swedish ? :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Gary,that would be the 'loopy' ones? To be fair,6.5x55 has been variously loaded,including lightly,in deference to older actions. But if size matters,it gives little away to the 47L,being of course '55'! As an Ackley,it rather spanks the 47. Maybe you don't know any swedish ? :-) g But the ackley version won't spank my 47's, because all of the other factors are right on them. Scope quality and ret Mounting height Stock fit Barrel twist and grade Trigger Mag type Builder and build quality Etc...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 But the ackley version won't spank my 47's, because all of the other factors are right on them. Scope quality and ret Mounting height Stock fit Barrel twist and grade Trigger Mag type Builder and build quality Etc...... Just the ballistics,then, to get up to speed,Gary! Can't see why all the other 'factors' you cite could not be done just so on a rifle chambered in 6.5x55 AI....or even rebarrel your chick magnet. But if it works for you and the chicks,why worry.The best is always temporary,anyhow.... :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I've seen this word 'loopy' used,and assumed it might be to do with trajectory......it is....here is the loopy 30-06 data: 30-06 165 Sierra Game King 200 zero drop at 300 is 8 inches compared to eg.... 7mm Rem mag 160g Nosler Part 6.6 inches How loopy is that 30-06 for a red deer hill stalking cartridge!! Or does 'loopy' have another meaning,perhaps referring to pragmatic ballistic ignorance? gbal 100% agree with your data gbal, but what's the difference of 2" in terms of holdover if you know your drops? I've also got to be honest and say that I would not take a shot at 300 yard on the hill unless it was an injured beast. The alternative is to load a lighter bullet and load the cartridge towards the max load and it will probably be flatter than the present load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 100% agree with your data gbal, but what's the difference of 2" in terms of holdover if you know your drops? I've also got to be honest and say that I would not take a shot at 300 yard on the hill unless it was an injured beast. The alternative is to load a lighter bullet and load the cartridge towards the max load and it will probably be flatter than the present load. Gandy,I gave the ballistics to show that the 30-06 is NOT loopy- only two inches more at an overly long 300yards on the hill shot compared to the generally considered decidedly unloopy 7Rem mag..... Anyone who thinks 6 inches good and 8 loopy,over 300y for a red deer cartridge,is, as I suggested,rather loopy themselves,at least with respect to practical performance.There is no need to load a lighter bullet,and perhaps change impact/delivered energy. The 30-06 is not loopy in this application. (I agree,300y is not a great stalk-but that was to make the unloopy point even clearer) gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Gandy,I gave the ballistics to show that the 30-06 is NOT loopy- only two inches more at an overly long 300yards on the hill shot compared to the generally considered decidedly unloopy 7Rem mag..... Anyone who thinks 6 inches good and 8 loopy,over 300y for a red deer cartridge,is, as I suggested,rather loopy themselves,at least with respect to practical performance.There is no need to load a lighter bullet,and perhaps change impact/delivered energy. The 30-06 is not loopy in this application. (I agree,300y is not a great stalk-but that was to make the unloopy point even clearer) gbal Ha ha, I'm daft and miss the point some times. Sorry for any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Ha ha, I'm daft and miss the point some times. Sorry for any confusion. No issues-maybe I should have just been direct and rude-it takes a loopy person to think the 30-06 is loopy-rather than ease in some facts,and snide comments....with the same conclusion. :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offroad Gary Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 The bowers 30-06ai in the sales section is decidedly un-loopy, delivers a 125gn nosler at 3400fps. Emphatic on all deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalua Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 My 6.5x55 was loopy: 140gr at 2550fps from the 21" barrel. Not being a reloader at the time, there wasn't much I could do about it. I agree also on 300yd shot on the hill being limited generally to an emergency shot at a wounded beast, but the difference between being able to hold high on the beast compared to having to hold in fresh air above it to me seems quite significant - a personal preference only, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 My 6.5x55 was loopy: 140gr at 2550fps from the 21" barrel. Not being a reloader at the time, there wasn't much I could do about it. I agree also on 300yd shot on the hill being limited generally to an emergency shot at a wounded beast, but the difference between being able to hold high on the beast compared to having to hold in fresh air above it to me seems quite significant - a personal preference only, perhaps. Dalua,yes-that is quite lightly loaded commercial ammo-in deference to older rifles,and your 21 inch barrel won't help! Norma does 140 Nosler Partitions at 2690,just as a 'fairer' indication of what the modern combination can easily achieve,even in factory. But I take you holdover point-with a 200 zero,you'd still have about +21/2 inches at 100,but over 10 inches drop at 300,again agreeing that the 300 shots should be fairly rare follow ups only. A more reasonable 250 yards would keep cross hairs on fur? Modern custom actions can get 140g Ackley swedes beyond 2850+,so there is long range life in the old dog yet....though it has performed rather well for decades at more modest stalking velocities-as you well know,as did the 7x57 and 6.5 M/S...among others! g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 The bowers 30-06ai in the sales section is decidedly un-loopy, delivers a 125gn nosler at 3400fps. Emphatic on all deer. Now Garry,that is a seriously non loopy proposition. Should also have some serious pull with older chicks,or short magnum groupies,like 308 Norma and her pals. :-) g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryh Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Getting well off track, But did Ackley not say the Swede was one of the few cartridges not worth Ackley'ing? (Cannot lay my hands on my copy of his books!) Also on a modern action use the 6.5 x 55 Skan load data not the old 94 Mauser data = much better Hold overs, I use a FFP scope, zero at 100, a 300 yard shot (if at all necessary!) would only be 1.3 mil (from memory, it's written on the scope) But we a driftin' way off into the boondocks here? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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