247sniper Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Will 17 hornet bullet exit a rabbit or will it fragment and not exit I can't decide if it is as safe as hmr can anyone advise It is probably safer then a HMR due to the increased MV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 It is probably safer then a HMR due to the increased MV's. ......and most 17 bullets are designed to fragment (I had very few through and through 17 rem 25g on rabbits at almost any range.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visiter1 Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 i shoot rabbits with my 17 hornet all the time and never a prob , never an exit dumps everything in the rabbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Could you give us a rough figure for wind drift @ 200yards in, say, a 10mph crosswind? According to my Biggameinfo drop drift charts with 20gr Vmax at 3400 its 6.3 inches with a wind at 90 degrees to line of flight. Hence in a 10mph wind I take a bigger caliber or stay home. It really comes into its own against crows and maggies at 5am on a spring or early summer morning, things are usually pretty still then. I shot a crow and 2 maggies with it from my kitchin window last week, they were coming to a sheep feed trough. Sheep were not in the least disturbed despite 3 birds disintegrating pretty close to them. Picked up all three within 3 feet and only a few feet from the sheep but slightly further away. Crow went first, then a maggie poking at the crow carcase, then another maggie trying to stir up its deceased mate. A A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 i shoot rabbits with my 17 hornet all the time and never a prob , never an exit dumps everything in the rabbit I have been meaning to test that but never got around to it, I suspect that you will get pass through especially if you use Bergers. Maggies are usually a mangled mess, crows are also chopped up usually. Got no rabbits to speak of so cant advise on them. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 According to my Biggameinfo drop drift charts with 20gr Vmax at 3400 its 6.3 inches with a wind at 90 degrees to line of flight. Hence in a 10mph wind I take a bigger caliber or stay home. It really comes into its own against crows and maggies at 5am on a spring or early summer morning, things are usually pretty still then. I shot a crow and 2 maggies with it from my kitchin window last week, they were coming to a sheep feed trough. Sheep were not in the least disturbed despite 3 birds disintegrating pretty close to them. Picked up all three within 3 feet and only a few feet from the sheep but slightly further away. Crow went first, then a maggie poking at the crow carcase, then another maggie trying to stir up its deceased mate. A A Lovleey jubleey you cant beat crow bashing with rifles, Cheers gunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seprim Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Would a .20 vartarg not be a good choice here ? 300 yards, high accuracy, reloading possible, lower noise and recoil than .204 ruger and the powder..... 19.9 gr Reloder7 pushing a 32gr sierra blitzking at 3749fps If the "+" is required then perhaps a .20 tactical?? not too much drop or drift and quieter than a 220 swift ? although there is quite a bit of case prep on the tactical 20 i believe. ( courtesy of Todd Kindler's "The Terrific Twenties" manual ) Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 20 tactical is a great cartridge , however i do believe the 20 practical is now more popular but i may be wrong , i shoot a 20 practical as my main varmint rifle and do love it . Atb gunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Gunny,you are probably right-very little in it ballistically,and neither can really catch the 204 Ruger,which has more capacity,but the Practical is an easier make than the Tactical-just run 223 brass through a (Redding S) bushing die with an appropriate bushing (230) and decap/exp button,and that's it...it's very......err..practicable/Practical.(20 Tac and Prac fit AR15 platform,which helps). Semprim ,yes, 20 Vartag is a contender,if 221FB brass is to hand and dies etc...,and a good few wildcats,for those who enjoy minor challenges.,and why not? :-) 17 Vartag anyone..turbo? gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hi Guys. . I do get asked to control long range rooks and long range rabbits (300 yards plus) which sometimes is a bit long stretch for the HMR. Options are 17 Hornet, 204 Ruger, From my experience shooting with a friends 17 Hornet, 300 yrds (plus) I felt the calibre was at the limit of its accurate range in normal field condions. Shooting the 17 Hornet next to my 17 rem - the Hornet was far more effected by wind than the 17 rem - (A calibre itself not renowned for bucking the wind) Even a small breeze would mean a noticable shift in bullet impact when firing the little Hornet. I have cronographed my pals 17 hornet - His CZ drives a 20 grn Vmax at 3460 fps - ( Home loaded ammo) Interestingly factory ammuniion wasnt much faster and certainly was not the 3650 fps claimed by Hornady. Yet again we see an exagiration in "claimed velocity" over "actual" velocity. And thats the problem with JUST using manufactures data - It cant be relied upon. In comparision my 17 rem zips the little 20 grn pills at 4400 fps and the 25 grn Vmax can trundle along at a sedate 4050 fps when needed . Another intersting point when comparing the 17 rem to the 17 Hornet, the muzzle report is very similar. I fully expected the 17 H to be much quieter than the 17 rem - Not So. As any owner will testify , the 17 rem moderates really well and is far quieter than my 223 using the same CQB mod. The 17 H is a great little round - no doubt in perfect condition or after a couple of "walk in " shots , 300 + yrds are quite doable but there will be much disapointment. when the weather condition are more lively. Personally I would opt for either a more powerfull 17 cal or a 20 cal.. For ease the 204 is great option for 400 yrd vermin shooting and foxing. Regards S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
247sniper Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yep, 204 for sure. Does everything the 17 H will do and a he'll of a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfresh Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_-NHQsKsA0 Here is a friend of mines .17 hornet. I have used it a few times and must say its very effective for rabbits out to 200 yards with little thought. To be honest I haven't shot it much out that that distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 As earlier posts in this thread...17H is a decent 200yarder,totally outclasssed at 300y by 204,17rem etc. Under all/any conditions that have wind,the hit rate just cannot compare as we get closer to 300. gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
247sniper Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Here is my 204 in action, in the wind on a 4" gong at 450 yards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaxbeff3-GU Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
247sniper Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 And here is my .204 shooting clay pigeons at 300 yards in very strong full value winds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Wm-O74R8U Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Here is my 204 in action, in the wind on a 4" gong at 450 yards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaxbeff3-GU Steve. Ding dong-mirage is famous/notorious for its visual distortions but not sound effects.That is some serious shimmers..in sno ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggersqueezer Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I enjoyed using my 17 Hornet for rabbits, mainly because it was significantly quieter than anything else, almost 17 HMR levels. You can argue all the other factors until the cows come home. soon gets louder if you shorten the barrel mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 My max range for 17AH Hornet is a bit over 200 yards in winds under 5mph. A bit less in 8mph winds. The 20gr Vmax is not IMHO a good fox bullet, I have lost 2 well hit foxes with them, the 25gr seems to be better from what I read but I have not tried it on them yet. If foxes are on the quarry list for this rifle then yes go for 20VT, however Todds loads are known to be very hot, 3750fps would in my book be better suited to 20 Prac or 20 Tac. As a matter of interest I run my 20BR at about 3500 with 50s and 3600 with 39s, plenty fast enough. Someone was talking about pass throughs earlier, this morning I shot another maggi with the 17AH and 20gr Vmax at about 60 yards with a galvanised feed trough immediately behind it. Sideways on shot, bullet was aimed at its chest. On inspecting the result the head and neck was 5 yards away, one wing about 8 yards away in another direction, the rest was a mangled mess. No clank heard after impact and no sign of any impact with the feed trough. No reason to believe that the bullet passed through. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaggletooth Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 My max range for 17AH Hornet is a bit over 200 yards in winds under 5mph. A bit less in 8mph winds. The 20gr Vmax is not IMHO a good fox bullet, I have lost 2 well hit foxes with them, the 25gr seems to be better from what I read but I have not tried it on them yet. A What sort of distance were they taken at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 My max range for 17AH Hornet is a bit over 200 yards in winds under 5mph. A bit less in 8mph winds. The 20gr Vmax is not IMHO a good fox bullet, I have lost 2 well hit foxes with them, the 25gr seems to be better from what I read but I have not tried it on them yet. If foxes are on the quarry list for this rifle then yes go for 20VT, however Todds loads are known to be very hot, 3750fps would in my book be better suited to 20 Prac or 20 Tac. As a matter of interest I run my 20BR at about 3500 with 50s and 3600 with 39s, plenty fast enough. A Hi Aly , todds must be pretty hot , my 20prac is at 3652 fps i could load up another .3 grains to max it but brass wouldn't last long . On your br with 39 , how much powder u using for that load @3600 out of interest ? Mines N133 23.3 grains of . Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 I am now taking rabbits crows and maggies with a 17 Fireball, got fed up with the inconsistant ammo for the HMR so got rid. An 18" barrel and mid range charges of benchmark keep the 25 grain berger varmints at just over 3600fps, fast enough but not too fast to cause excessive tissue damage. Not really a good round if you are shooting for the pot but if you are controlling numbers its pretty good. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visiter1 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I am now taking rabbits crows and maggies with a 17 Fireball, got fed up with the inconsistant ammo for the HMR so got rid. An 18" barrel and mid range charges of benchmark keep the 25 grain berger varmints at just over 3600fps, fast enough but not too fast to cause excessive tissue damage. Not really a good round if you are shooting for the pot but if you are controlling numbers its pretty good. Ian. how much powder r u using mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hi Aly , todds must be pretty hot , my 20prac is at 3652 fps i could load up another .3 grains to max it but brass wouldn't last long . On your br with 39 , how much powder u using for that load @3600 out of interest ? Mines N133 23.3 grains of . Cheers I am using N150, about 29.0 grains from memory. The powder is slow yes but I get a 90% plus case fill so good ES figures and a very smooth firing cycle. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hi Aly , todds must be pretty hot , my 20prac is at 3652 fps i could load up another .3 grains to max it but brass wouldn't last long . On your br with 39 , how much powder u using for that load @3600 out of interest ? Mines N133 23.3 grains of . Cheers I am using N150, about 29.0 grains from memory. The powder is slow yes but I get a 90% plus case fill so good ES figures and a very smooth firing cycle. A What sort of distance were they taken at? First one was front on bib shot about 80 yards off the wingmirror of the Disco in daylight. Had just shot a crow at a similar distance and half an hour later I killed another crow at that range. I suspect the bullet hit the breastbone and broke up on impact. Second one was 200 yards again in daylight, it was sitting up on its rear quarters, steep downhill, zero is 160 yards, went for a head shot as it was perfectly still. It went down then dragged itself into a large overgrown 3 way ditch complex. That was really to far for the combination and the target, the previous evening I had killed a vixen with a 6mm that had been taking lambs, this was 5am the next morning on the Larsen trap round a couple of fields away. Should have taken a bigger rifle. I have read that the 25gr Berger is far more effective on Fox but I suspect using it on crows etc will lead to pass throughs. Have killed another couple at 150 yards with 20gr Vmax, on both occasions I thought that a stopper would be needed but by the time I had got one in they had both died. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbal Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 As Alycidon's experience... there is drop and drift....but the third component is terminal efficiency-and most sources don't even give energy levels. Not an issue for crows and rabbits,but it is for fox.Often/usually/sometimes kills cleanly ....there are better cartridges (though all can fail,it's rare for the appropriate ones.) gbal here's some data,just to emphasise the point:(I don't have 17H loads to hand,but this gives the general idea): muzzle 100 200 300 yards ft lb 22 hornet 35 vmax @3100 747 401 197* 99 223 40 vmax 3800 1282 937 677 479 204r 32vmax 4225 1268 944 699 512 17HMR 17vmax 2530 240 134 70 no way All commercial/comparable loads. * 17H will probably have a bit less energy by 200y-general light bullet effect.Not too surprising that it can be less reliable . gbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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